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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 2765179" data-attributes="member: 2020">Gnomes look a lot like overgrown fey of the leprechaun/grig type.&nbsp; One look at a 3.5 gnome, and you know you have trouble.&nbsp; No more will elves with infravision sneak up on the clumsy half-orcs!&nbsp; Now, it's the wily half-orcs who will sneak up on the elves ...&nbsp; I see that is is MUCH HARDER now for ANY character or monster to make his saving throw.&nbsp; No more 'I only need a 2' statements!&nbsp; You only advance in meaningful terms in one type of saving throw:&nbsp; the others are just messy.&nbsp; (When you are 20th level and you only have a 8 to 11 saving throw against 2/3rds of the types of incoming attacks ... well, I think the 20th level character in question would be panicking, back in 2E.&nbsp; By 14, I mean a base save of 14 to 17 - 6 (+ 6 on the 3.5 charts.)&nbsp; So yes, all the spells (or nearly all) in 3.5 allow saving throws now.&nbsp; But does it matter?&nbsp; You're still going to die, unless the spell or power hits your one good save category.&nbsp; So let me get this right:&nbsp; A 20th level fighter gets 4 attacks with his good hand.&nbsp; One is at + 20 to hit (what you call Base Attack Bonus), one is at + 15, one is at + 10, and one is at + 5.&nbsp; That 20th level fighter also gets ONE attack with his off-hand, at + 20 to hit.&nbsp; But if he uses that one off-hand attack, he is at - 6 to all attacks with his good hand, and - 10 to all attacks with his off-hand.&nbsp; The 20th level wizard gets 2 attacks with his good hand, at BAB + 10 and + 5.&nbsp; The 20th level wizard can take 1 attack with his off-hand at BAB + 10 (but the penalties of - 6 and - 10 apply.)&nbsp; Do the dexterity bonuses cancel out any of the - 6 / - 10 penalties?&nbsp; That is, if I had a character with a 19 dexterity (the infamous elf ...) would his penalties drop at once to - 2 / - 6 because there is a + 4 bonus for 19 dexterity?&nbsp; They gave the monk a d8 for hit points??!!&nbsp; HOORAY.&nbsp; The poor monk has been underpowered since he was first introduced in 1st edition.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 2765179, member: 2020"] Gnomes look a lot like overgrown fey of the leprechaun/grig type. One look at a 3.5 gnome, and you know you have trouble. No more will elves with infravision sneak up on the clumsy half-orcs! Now, it's the wily half-orcs who will sneak up on the elves ... I see that is is MUCH HARDER now for ANY character or monster to make his saving throw. No more 'I only need a 2' statements! You only advance in meaningful terms in one type of saving throw: the others are just messy. (When you are 20th level and you only have a 8 to 11 saving throw against 2/3rds of the types of incoming attacks ... well, I think the 20th level character in question would be panicking, back in 2E. By 14, I mean a base save of 14 to 17 - 6 (+ 6 on the 3.5 charts.) So yes, all the spells (or nearly all) in 3.5 allow saving throws now. But does it matter? You're still going to die, unless the spell or power hits your one good save category. So let me get this right: A 20th level fighter gets 4 attacks with his good hand. One is at + 20 to hit (what you call Base Attack Bonus), one is at + 15, one is at + 10, and one is at + 5. That 20th level fighter also gets ONE attack with his off-hand, at + 20 to hit. But if he uses that one off-hand attack, he is at - 6 to all attacks with his good hand, and - 10 to all attacks with his off-hand. The 20th level wizard gets 2 attacks with his good hand, at BAB + 10 and + 5. The 20th level wizard can take 1 attack with his off-hand at BAB + 10 (but the penalties of - 6 and - 10 apply.) Do the dexterity bonuses cancel out any of the - 6 / - 10 penalties? That is, if I had a character with a 19 dexterity (the infamous elf ...) would his penalties drop at once to - 2 / - 6 because there is a + 4 bonus for 19 dexterity? They gave the monk a d8 for hit points??!! HOORAY. The poor monk has been underpowered since he was first introduced in 1st edition. [/QUOTE]

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