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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 2795111" data-attributes="member: 2020">(humor, correction of my previous mistake)&nbsp; Ah, my pardons.&nbsp; It's the duelist in the DMG, and she's not quite as bad as all that.&nbsp; If she has a 20 intelligence, and is a 5th level duelist, she'd get +5 to her AC.&nbsp; At 10th level, she'd gain 10 to her AC for Elaborate Parry, but she cannot wear armor.&nbsp; My mistake.&nbsp; She can only don a +5 cloak of protection, instead.&nbsp; And a headband of intellect +5.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; I love it.&nbsp; ACs in the 40s aren't that uncommon, you say, at epic levels.&nbsp; The highest AC I ever saw, in 20 years of gaming, prior to 3rd edition, was - 24.&nbsp; That would be 44 in 3rd edition.&nbsp; And you say ACs in the 40s aren't *that* uncommon over level 20 in 3rd edition.&nbsp; lolol ...&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />&nbsp; The highest AC any character of mine ever achieved was -12 (32.)&nbsp; The highest AC Edena the Cleric ever achieved was -3 (AC 23.)&nbsp; Now, they can achieve AC 30 and better easier.&nbsp; And the 40s aren't uncommon.&nbsp; Note to all 2nd edition characters trapped in 3rd edition:&nbsp; RUN.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; EDIT:&nbsp; I realize the 3rd edition 20th level fighter would easily kill the wraith.&nbsp; I'm speaking of the 2nd edition 20th level fighter.&nbsp; &nbsp; The wraith, however, gains all the benefits of 3rd edition.&nbsp; It could have spells, it could be wearing ghosttouch armor, it could be a high level fighter itself.&nbsp; The 2nd edition fighter is expecting a Standard Wraith (the player has probably memorized it from the 2nd edition monster manual.)&nbsp; &nbsp; The poor 2nd edition 20th level fighter is hit with a deluge of assaults that he never expected, and in many cases simply didn't exist as options in 2nd edition ... and all his armor defenses are annulled.&nbsp; Yeah, he can still make his save versus death magic and shrug off the level drain.&nbsp; But if I were playing him, I'd be running.&nbsp; It's not that they upgunned everyone in 3rd edition.&nbsp; That's not it.&nbsp; It's that they gave everyone so many CHOICES in 3rd edition.&nbsp; THAT has made everyone and every monster bloody powerful!&nbsp; So yeah, a 3rd edition fighter wipes the floor with the wraith.&nbsp; A 2nd edition 20th level fighter with +5 plate armor and +5 shield and 18 dexterity, runs for his life.&nbsp; EDIT:&nbsp; That's assuming it's a mere CR 5 to CR 10 wraith.&nbsp; If it's a CR 20 wraith, designed to take on a 20th level 3rd edition fighter, the 20th level 2nd edition fighter is so fried, you can't scrape him off the ground with an adamantite spatula!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 2795111, member: 2020"] (humor, correction of my previous mistake) Ah, my pardons. It's the duelist in the DMG, and she's not quite as bad as all that. If she has a 20 intelligence, and is a 5th level duelist, she'd get +5 to her AC. At 10th level, she'd gain 10 to her AC for Elaborate Parry, but she cannot wear armor. My mistake. She can only don a +5 cloak of protection, instead. And a headband of intellect +5. :) I love it. ACs in the 40s aren't that uncommon, you say, at epic levels. The highest AC I ever saw, in 20 years of gaming, prior to 3rd edition, was - 24. That would be 44 in 3rd edition. And you say ACs in the 40s aren't *that* uncommon over level 20 in 3rd edition. lolol ... :D The highest AC any character of mine ever achieved was -12 (32.) The highest AC Edena the Cleric ever achieved was -3 (AC 23.) Now, they can achieve AC 30 and better easier. And the 40s aren't uncommon. Note to all 2nd edition characters trapped in 3rd edition: RUN. :) EDIT: I realize the 3rd edition 20th level fighter would easily kill the wraith. I'm speaking of the 2nd edition 20th level fighter. The wraith, however, gains all the benefits of 3rd edition. It could have spells, it could be wearing ghosttouch armor, it could be a high level fighter itself. The 2nd edition fighter is expecting a Standard Wraith (the player has probably memorized it from the 2nd edition monster manual.) The poor 2nd edition 20th level fighter is hit with a deluge of assaults that he never expected, and in many cases simply didn't exist as options in 2nd edition ... and all his armor defenses are annulled. Yeah, he can still make his save versus death magic and shrug off the level drain. But if I were playing him, I'd be running. It's not that they upgunned everyone in 3rd edition. That's not it. It's that they gave everyone so many CHOICES in 3rd edition. THAT has made everyone and every monster bloody powerful! So yeah, a 3rd edition fighter wipes the floor with the wraith. A 2nd edition 20th level fighter with +5 plate armor and +5 shield and 18 dexterity, runs for his life. EDIT: That's assuming it's a mere CR 5 to CR 10 wraith. If it's a CR 20 wraith, designed to take on a 20th level 3rd edition fighter, the 20th level 2nd edition fighter is so fried, you can't scrape him off the ground with an adamantite spatula! [/QUOTE]

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