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<blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 2795822" data-attributes="member: 2020">I know every monster template has a CR.&nbsp; I believe your PC level (character level) is his CR.&nbsp; I think I understand the spirit of how CR works.&nbsp; It is there to support balance.&nbsp; When I refer to balance, I'm referring to something very specific that is summed up in one sentence:&nbsp; Every player has a fair chance at having an equal share of the fun. &nbsp; That's what they stressed over and over in chapter 1 of the DMG, and that's a balance I like.&nbsp; CR is a part of an interlocking system of rules designed to maintain balance (that is, to maintain every player's fair chance at an equal share of the fun.)&nbsp; The experience point rules and CR are interlocking.&nbsp; If a party of 4 characters takes on 3 challenges equal to it's CR (the combined party's CR) the whole party is likely to level.&nbsp; But they must take on and win those challenges.&nbsp; That is an important point, not a truism.&nbsp; See below.&nbsp; A 1st level party of 4 characters takes on a CR 4 challenge.&nbsp; Then another.&nbsp; Then another.&nbsp; They level to 2nd level.&nbsp; A 20th level party of 4 characters takes on a CR 80 challenge.&nbsp; Then another.&nbsp; Then another.&nbsp; They level to 21st level.&nbsp; That's because the experience point charts grant you more experience for higher CRs, equal experience (relative to levels, of course) for equal CRs, and lesser CRs for lower CRs.&nbsp; (Your 20th level character can go kill orcs all day, but he'll never gain any experience from it.)&nbsp; But ...&nbsp; The CR of 4 for that 1st level party, and the CR 80 for that 20th level party, is a CR designed to challenge the players and their characters to the limits of their ability.&nbsp; Thus, if players fight amongst each other, argue, refuse to cooperate, are lazy, don't try, knife each other, or otherwise don't work at winning, the party loses and they gain no experience points.&nbsp; Or worse, characters die and must be resurrected.&nbsp; Or the ultimate punishment of a total party kill.&nbsp; In other words, cooperation is not optional.&nbsp; It is a requirement.&nbsp; This reality is reinforced by the imbalances between characters.&nbsp; Each has a specialization, and none can succeed alone.&nbsp; The rules simply do not permit self-sufficient characters against CR challenges equal to their own. (You can go on killing orcs all day at 20th level and be self-sufficient, but you won't gain any experience.&nbsp; You might as well have retired the character for all your trouble.&nbsp; If you want to actually gain anything, you must get back into that group and actually try.)&nbsp; This rule not only applies to the 1st level party, but it applies to the 3rd level party, the 5th level party, the 7th level party, the 10th level party, the 15th level party, and the 20th level party.&nbsp; Apparently, it applies to the 30th level party, the 40th level party, and the 100th level party too (if you can find appropriate CR challenges:&nbsp; thus epic monsters.)&nbsp; In other words, nobody gets a free ride.&nbsp; Nobody is exempt from the necessity of cooperation.&nbsp;&nbsp; Nobody can escape the imbalance in their character.&nbsp; The CR ratings ... that is what the CR ratings are all about.&nbsp; That is why they exist.&nbsp; They exist, along with the 3rd edition experience point charts, to ensure a scenario where the players need to cooperate to advance.&nbsp; If the players must cooperate, there is more fun.&nbsp; If characters are imbalanced, everyone gets their own chance to shine.&nbsp; If nothing is easy, there is no room for fighting, arguing, backstabbing your party, being lazy, and not doing your best.&nbsp; You have to pull your weight.&nbsp;&nbsp; That's what CR is all about.&nbsp; I like it.&nbsp; At first, I thought it was ridiculous, but I did not understand it.&nbsp; Now, I think it's a great idea.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Edena_of_Neith, post: 2795822, member: 2020"] I know every monster template has a CR. I believe your PC level (character level) is his CR. I think I understand the spirit of how CR works. It is there to support balance. When I refer to balance, I'm referring to something very specific that is summed up in one sentence: Every player has a fair chance at having an equal share of the fun. That's what they stressed over and over in chapter 1 of the DMG, and that's a balance I like. CR is a part of an interlocking system of rules designed to maintain balance (that is, to maintain every player's fair chance at an equal share of the fun.) The experience point rules and CR are interlocking. If a party of 4 characters takes on 3 challenges equal to it's CR (the combined party's CR) the whole party is likely to level. But they must take on and win those challenges. That is an important point, not a truism. See below. A 1st level party of 4 characters takes on a CR 4 challenge. Then another. Then another. They level to 2nd level. A 20th level party of 4 characters takes on a CR 80 challenge. Then another. Then another. They level to 21st level. That's because the experience point charts grant you more experience for higher CRs, equal experience (relative to levels, of course) for equal CRs, and lesser CRs for lower CRs. (Your 20th level character can go kill orcs all day, but he'll never gain any experience from it.) But ... The CR of 4 for that 1st level party, and the CR 80 for that 20th level party, is a CR designed to challenge the players and their characters to the limits of their ability. Thus, if players fight amongst each other, argue, refuse to cooperate, are lazy, don't try, knife each other, or otherwise don't work at winning, the party loses and they gain no experience points. Or worse, characters die and must be resurrected. Or the ultimate punishment of a total party kill. In other words, cooperation is not optional. It is a requirement. This reality is reinforced by the imbalances between characters. Each has a specialization, and none can succeed alone. The rules simply do not permit self-sufficient characters against CR challenges equal to their own. (You can go on killing orcs all day at 20th level and be self-sufficient, but you won't gain any experience. You might as well have retired the character for all your trouble. If you want to actually gain anything, you must get back into that group and actually try.) This rule not only applies to the 1st level party, but it applies to the 3rd level party, the 5th level party, the 7th level party, the 10th level party, the 15th level party, and the 20th level party. Apparently, it applies to the 30th level party, the 40th level party, and the 100th level party too (if you can find appropriate CR challenges: thus epic monsters.) In other words, nobody gets a free ride. Nobody is exempt from the necessity of cooperation. Nobody can escape the imbalance in their character. The CR ratings ... that is what the CR ratings are all about. That is why they exist. They exist, along with the 3rd edition experience point charts, to ensure a scenario where the players need to cooperate to advance. If the players must cooperate, there is more fun. If characters are imbalanced, everyone gets their own chance to shine. If nothing is easy, there is no room for fighting, arguing, backstabbing your party, being lazy, and not doing your best. You have to pull your weight. That's what CR is all about. I like it. At first, I thought it was ridiculous, but I did not understand it. Now, I think it's a great idea. [/QUOTE]

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