Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Comments and questions on 3.5 from a Newbie
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Silveras" data-source="post: 2795893" data-attributes="member: 6271"><p>The big thing about CR is a tool for the DM to know when the encounter is too tough for the party. CR has little to do with making sure every character has a chance to shine, or is tested to the limit of his/her abilities. </p><p></p><p>The feeling in 3.5 is that the PCs should be successful most of the time, infrequently at severe risk (15% of the time), and only rarely (5% of the time) so clearly overmatched that it is obvious they should run. Some DMs may feel this is overly generous to the PCs, too deliberately "game designed" as opposed to "story designed". </p><p></p><p>To truly make sure that each character in the party gets a chance to shine, and that each is tested to his/her limits, the DM needs more than CR. The DM needs to consider what each character does best, and select a challenge that the other characters cannot handle nearly as well. </p><p></p><p>Example: </p><p>To test a party with 1 Fighter, 1 Rogue, 1 Wizard, and 1 Cleric, the DM needs to select "appropriate CR" traps for the Rogue (with detect and disarm DCs that are near the Rogue's total Search and Disable Device modifiers), add "appropriate CR" undead for the Cleric to turn (with numbers and/or HD to make it suitably difficult), "appropriate CR" combatants to challenge the Fighter (something with some useful Feats of its own; the same Undead as used for the Cleric might be used, just with more numbers), and something that the Wizard can't just magic missile away (perhaps a foe with high SR, so the Wizard has to think of a way to use his/her spells indirectly). </p><p></p><p>The CR number (and the Encounter Level (EL), which is a combined CR for all the things that come in one encounter; a single thing has an EL equal to its CR) gives you an idea of whether the things you have chosen might be too tough for the party, especially if the Rogue fails to find the trap or the Cleric fails to turn the undead. </p><p></p><p>Perhaps the Rogue has put a lot of effort into maximizing Search and Disable Device. If the only traps that the DM can find with Search and Disable DCs in the right range are at CRs 6 or more above the party's level, the DM needs to choose something lesser, and maybe add something to the design to make them harder to find and/or disable. </p><p></p><p>In the end, CR and EL are about not ruining the players' fun by accidentally throwing something too tough at them (Mind Flayer against a lone 1st level Fighter) or too easy at them (lone CR 1/2 Orc against a party of 12th level PCs).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Silveras, post: 2795893, member: 6271"] The big thing about CR is a tool for the DM to know when the encounter is too tough for the party. CR has little to do with making sure every character has a chance to shine, or is tested to the limit of his/her abilities. The feeling in 3.5 is that the PCs should be successful most of the time, infrequently at severe risk (15% of the time), and only rarely (5% of the time) so clearly overmatched that it is obvious they should run. Some DMs may feel this is overly generous to the PCs, too deliberately "game designed" as opposed to "story designed". To truly make sure that each character in the party gets a chance to shine, and that each is tested to his/her limits, the DM needs more than CR. The DM needs to consider what each character does best, and select a challenge that the other characters cannot handle nearly as well. Example: To test a party with 1 Fighter, 1 Rogue, 1 Wizard, and 1 Cleric, the DM needs to select "appropriate CR" traps for the Rogue (with detect and disarm DCs that are near the Rogue's total Search and Disable Device modifiers), add "appropriate CR" undead for the Cleric to turn (with numbers and/or HD to make it suitably difficult), "appropriate CR" combatants to challenge the Fighter (something with some useful Feats of its own; the same Undead as used for the Cleric might be used, just with more numbers), and something that the Wizard can't just magic missile away (perhaps a foe with high SR, so the Wizard has to think of a way to use his/her spells indirectly). The CR number (and the Encounter Level (EL), which is a combined CR for all the things that come in one encounter; a single thing has an EL equal to its CR) gives you an idea of whether the things you have chosen might be too tough for the party, especially if the Rogue fails to find the trap or the Cleric fails to turn the undead. Perhaps the Rogue has put a lot of effort into maximizing Search and Disable Device. If the only traps that the DM can find with Search and Disable DCs in the right range are at CRs 6 or more above the party's level, the DM needs to choose something lesser, and maybe add something to the design to make them harder to find and/or disable. In the end, CR and EL are about not ruining the players' fun by accidentally throwing something too tough at them (Mind Flayer against a lone 1st level Fighter) or too easy at them (lone CR 1/2 Orc against a party of 12th level PCs). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Comments and questions on 3.5 from a Newbie
Top