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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 7251644" data-attributes="member: 5890">Now you're saying that each time I have a player roll I need to be looking at their modifiers and using those to set the DC.I don't understand how you don't get that that is cumbersome... and indicative of a cumbersome system.Sure... but the number is under 2000 archers, which is hardly enormous. The dragon dies in 6 seconds, which is hardly epic.Right... so why call out the passage I'm using for an argument as optional if everything we are arguing about is optional? It doesn't strengthen your argument at all.I think you're being somewhat disingenuous if you argue that "arbitrarily deciding whether a check is made, then calling for a check if it is" doesn't involve an arbitrary decision...Like I said - downward drag. According to you I'm having to take the skill bonuses and vibe of each character into account before I assign a DC or even permit a roll. That's a big burden compared with (say) 3rd ed where I could just look down the list of DCs and throw one out, confident that the rules were doing the work for me. (well, assuming I don't have a half-elf marshal/bard/exemplar/binder and am running a level 20 game...)You missed out the fact that rogues can choose to automatically roll 10 or better, giving a minimum roll of 27, 3 less than 'almost impossible', the highest DC in the system. You were holding up a diplomancer against the DCs recommended by the system, not an average character against a DM-set DC. I'm not optimizing beyond "have a good charisma, choose persuasion/deception/intimidation as your expertise, level up in rogue", and the system is 3 points off "unless the DM says this is impossible, you do it". Add a feat and a couple of magic items and you're there.He always was. You can't run a game of 3e without the DM deciding how the world works. If you say you're going to sneak through a wall, or persuade the force of gravity to let you fly to the moon, the DM can say "That's not possible". 5e didn't invent that. It just made a skill system which doesn't support the DM in making more down to earth determinations. If you say "I jump 23 feet", the DM has no clue what the DC is. It's clearly possible: it's been done by real life athletes. It seems like it shouldn't be too tough - it's only 3 feet past what is possible without rolling.But beyond that? No real help except a comment in athletics that the DM might call for a check.It would make for even better 5e games if the skill system helped instead of hindered my job.</blockquote>

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