Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Morrus" data-source="post: 8319551" data-attributes="member: 1"><p>The new TSR (<a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/tsr-2-confirms-tsr-3-s-acquisition-of-trademark-updated.680906/" target="_blank">which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion</a>) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its<strong> TSR Games</strong>, <strong>Giantlands</strong>, and <strong>Dungeon Hobby Museum</strong> social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an astonishing PR campaign which makes <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/ernie-gygax-on-new-tsr-wotc-beefs-trademarks-licensees-5e-more.680877/" target="_blank">the original interview which sparked off the controversy</a> look mild in comparison. Various entities are moving to distance themselves from the company and its activities, including TSR2, the company founded in 2011 by Jayson Elliot, which has now declared that it will not be using the name TSR any longer. Other companies including Gen Con and freelancers such as Jeff Dee have also made statements.</p><p></p><p>For reference --<strong> TSR1</strong> is the (no longer existing) company which launched D&D in 1974, <strong>TSR2</strong> is the company founded by Jayson Elliot in 2011 to create <em>Gygax Magazine</em> and which currently publishes the <em>Top Secret</em> RPG, and <strong>TSR3</strong> is the newly launched company.</p><p></p><p>[HR][/HR]</p><p><em>Catch up on my previous coverage of this story:</em></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/ernie-gygax-on-new-tsr-wotc-beefs-trademarks-licensees-5e-more.680877/[/URL]</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/tsr-2-confirms-tsr-3-s-acquisition-of-trademark-updated.680906/[/URL]</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/a-tsr-announces-a-star-frontiers-reboot.680858/[/URL]</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/tsr-is-back-again.680779/[/URL]</p><p>[HR][/HR]</p><p>TSR3's social media accounts initially sought to distance the company from Ernie Gygax's statements, but within a few hours had reversed course and doubled down on his stance. Note that there have been dozens of social media posts from the company over the last few days, and still continuing as I type this, and I don't intend to share them all here.</p><p></p><p>(Thanks to Daniel Fox for sharing screenshots below via Twitter).</p><p></p><p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]138989[/ATTACH]</p> <p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]138986[/ATTACH]</p> <p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]138987[/ATTACH]</p> <p style="text-align: center"></p> <p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]138983[/ATTACH]</p> <p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]138985[/ATTACH]</p> <p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]138992[/ATTACH]</p> <p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]138993[/ATTACH]</p> <p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]138981[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p><a href="https://twitter.com/TSRgames/status/1409212101315284992?s=20" target="_blank"><strong>TSR2</strong></a> -- "Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion."</p><p></p><p><a href="https://twitter.com/Gen_Con/status/1408930300185432071?s=20" target="_blank"><strong>Gen Con</strong></a> -- "Gen Con is not associated with TSR Games and we don't support their recent statements. While the foundation of Gen Con is tied with the history of TTRPGs, our goal is to build off the good, acknowledge the bad, and work toward a present free from racism, misogyny, and homophobia."</p><p></p><p>Gen Con has also indicated that they do not intend to allow TSR3 at the convention.</p><p></p><p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]138984[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p><a href="https://twitter.com/TheGAMAOnline/status/1409577741230526464" target="_blank"><strong>GAMA (the Game Manufacturers Association)</strong></a> -- "We’re aware of the appalling statements published by TSR Games and their founder - GAMA does not condone nor agree with any part of it. We pride ourselves on supporting and promoting inclusivity always. Our motto is “A game at every table, a table for everyone”. Transphobia, racism, and sexism will not be tolerated. That means that TSR is not welcome at Origins Game Fair, GAMA Expo or any event affiliated with our organization."</p><p></p><p><a href="https://www.facebook.com/jeffdee01/posts/4712987975396292?__cft__[0]=AZVHmsfulWgwb0rYupWAEy9t4KkiQOEbVXpcmNCbTuwa1YSBQB-ZljyhIuOry7XDbqzEjcX9X02Afg8EuYAy-7ImlUbTIpKL8I-8hOyiL3waUI22RjCALh7LLaaXexxMaQc&[B]tn[/B]=%2CO%2CP-R" target="_blank"><strong>Jeff Dee</strong></a> -- "There is a rumor going around that I am part of this new TSR company. That is not accurate. I have done some work for them as a freelance artist. That’s how I make my living, and spreading the misinformation that I’m now employed full-time by one particular client could stop other clients from approaching me and hurt my business. So, please do not spread that rumor. If I ever become a full-time employee anywhere again, I will announce that myself. Thanks. UPDATE: After investigating reports about statements made by representatives of this new TSR, I have determined that I can no longer do business with them in good conscience. I've returned their downpayment on the next piece of art I was scheduled to do for them. And yeah, I could sure use some new commissions to make up for this big hit on my cashflow"</p><p></p><p><a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-mystery-deepens-jim-ward-knows-nothing-about-a-new-tsr.680873/" target="_blank"><strong>Jim Ward</strong></a>, an original TSR alumnus and who wrote <em>Giantlands</em>, TSR3's flagship product -- "At the present time I know little or nothing about the relaunch of TSR. Right now I don't see how anyone could pick up where the old company left off. Yes it's a name with some logos, that is all I know."</p><p></p><p><a href="https://twitter.com/lukegygax/status/1408475315882520578" target="_blank"><strong>Luke Gygax</strong></a> -- "FYI- I am not involved with any TSR company nor is Gary Con nor anyone else in my family outside of Ernie. Full stop. That is all ... I have reasons for distancing myself. The way TSR treats people online in their public exchanges is rude. The museum is a for profit business and was asking for donations. Using names of people to promote without their knowledge. Going out of the way to talk gender/woke stuff ... Also basically jacking the TSR logo from Jayson Elliot. The bombastic press releases and claims to old IP. Making a quick nostalgia money grab based on my fathers name and not much else. So I’m making it clear I don’t like this style and I have ZERO to do with TSR"</p><p></p><p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]138988[/ATTACH]</p> <p style="text-align: center"><em>TSR3 responds to Luke Gygax</em></p><p></p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe34PFuwwn4&t=2820s" target="_blank"><strong>Tim Kask</strong></a><strong>,</strong> an original TSR alumnus who worked at the company until 1980, spoke at length on this topic in a YouTube video (below). I've transcribed some bits, but he says a whole load more (ellipses represent sections I have not included, for reasons of brevity), so check out the video for the whole thing.</p><p></p><p>[callout]"There has been bandied about in social media over the last several days several claims about what's going on in Lake Geneva right now. Ernie Gygax made a most egregious mistake in an interview he did on a podcast. He basically waved his bare ass in front of everybody that's concerned about pronouns, and woke, and all that right now in the industry and thumbed his nose at them. <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/ernie-gygax-on-new-tsr-wotc-beefs-trademarks-licensees-5e-more.680877/" target="_blank">The transcript of his podcasts are there for everyone to read</a>. That they were men, and they didn't give a sh*t, and la la la.</p><p></p><p>But right there they alienated three quarters of the gaming industry. Probably more than that, I don't believe that there's a quarter of the gaming industry that still are the neanderthals that he would make us out to be.</p><p></p><p>That's another thing. This whole thing has brought the OSR (the old school revival) into serious disrepute. Now there are some little Karens going on some of the social media and painting with the same brush all of us that were there back then based on the stupid ass sh*t that Ernie just said. No. We weren't all like that. And we aren't all like that now. He's a troll, a troglodyte, a neanderthal, if he really means that. It's a foolish person that doesn't wet his finger once in a while and feel the wind shift.</p><p></p><p>Now there've been claims in a couple of posts, one of which is by Ernie, about how the stalwarts, the old TSR are flocking to the banner. Bullsh*t....</p><p></p><p>... There is no one of the creative side of TSR from the early days involved with the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum. No one. Not one creative person. No matter who might be claiming what, they simply do not have the credentials. Being named DiMaggio does not mean you can hit a lot of home runs. Or that you even hit any home runs ....</p><p></p><p>... Just because you say you're TSR doesn't mean you are." [/callout]</p><p></p><p style="text-align: center">[MEDIA=youtube]Fe34PFuwwn4:2820[/MEDIA]</p> <p style="text-align: center"></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Morrus, post: 8319551, member: 1"] The new TSR ([URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/tsr-2-confirms-tsr-3-s-acquisition-of-trademark-updated.680906/']which I refer to as TSR3 to avoid confusion[/URL]) has doubled down on its stance--which has been widely condemned online--via an ongoing series of tweets and replies from its[B] TSR Games[/B], [B]Giantlands[/B], and [B]Dungeon Hobby Museum[/B] social media accounts (possibly operated by Justin LaNasa) in an astonishing PR campaign which makes [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/ernie-gygax-on-new-tsr-wotc-beefs-trademarks-licensees-5e-more.680877/']the original interview which sparked off the controversy[/URL] look mild in comparison. Various entities are moving to distance themselves from the company and its activities, including TSR2, the company founded in 2011 by Jayson Elliot, which has now declared that it will not be using the name TSR any longer. Other companies including Gen Con and freelancers such as Jeff Dee have also made statements. For reference --[B] TSR1[/B] is the (no longer existing) company which launched D&D in 1974, [B]TSR2[/B] is the company founded by Jayson Elliot in 2011 to create [I]Gygax Magazine[/I] and which currently publishes the [I]Top Secret[/I] RPG, and [B]TSR3[/B] is the newly launched company. [HR][/HR] [I]Catch up on my previous coverage of this story:[/I] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/ernie-gygax-on-new-tsr-wotc-beefs-trademarks-licensees-5e-more.680877/[/URL] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/tsr-2-confirms-tsr-3-s-acquisition-of-trademark-updated.680906/[/URL] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/a-tsr-announces-a-star-frontiers-reboot.680858/[/URL] [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/tsr-is-back-again.680779/[/URL] [HR][/HR] TSR3's social media accounts initially sought to distance the company from Ernie Gygax's statements, but within a few hours had reversed course and doubled down on his stance. Note that there have been dozens of social media posts from the company over the last few days, and still continuing as I type this, and I don't intend to share them all here. (Thanks to Daniel Fox for sharing screenshots below via Twitter). [CENTER][ATTACH type="full" width="400px" alt="Screen Shot 2021-06-27 at 10.19.46 PM.png"]138989[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" width="400px" alt="tsr_distance.jpeg"]138986[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" width="400px" alt="tsr3_gyg.jpeg"]138987[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" width="400px" alt="Screen Shot 2021-06-27 at 10.00.40 PM.png"]138983[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" width="400px" alt="tsr3dis.jpeg"]138985[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" width="400px" alt="Screen Shot 2021-06-27 at 11.44.54 PM.png"]138992[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" width="400px" alt="Screen Shot 2021-06-27 at 11.45.42 PM.png"]138993[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" alt="uROPf5GL_400x400.jpg"]138981[/ATTACH][/CENTER] [URL='https://twitter.com/TSRgames/status/1409212101315284992?s=20'][B]TSR2[/B][/URL] -- "Update to our earlier tweet - we will NOT be licensing anything from the new company claiming rights to the TSR logos. We are not working with them in any fashion." [URL='https://twitter.com/Gen_Con/status/1408930300185432071?s=20'][B]Gen Con[/B][/URL] -- "Gen Con is not associated with TSR Games and we don't support their recent statements. While the foundation of Gen Con is tied with the history of TTRPGs, our goal is to build off the good, acknowledge the bad, and work toward a present free from racism, misogyny, and homophobia." Gen Con has also indicated that they do not intend to allow TSR3 at the convention. [CENTER][ATTACH type="full" width="400px" alt="gencon.jpeg"]138984[/ATTACH][/CENTER] [URL='https://twitter.com/TheGAMAOnline/status/1409577741230526464'][B]GAMA (the Game Manufacturers Association)[/B][/URL] -- "We’re aware of the appalling statements published by TSR Games and their founder - GAMA does not condone nor agree with any part of it. We pride ourselves on supporting and promoting inclusivity always. Our motto is “A game at every table, a table for everyone”. Transphobia, racism, and sexism will not be tolerated. That means that TSR is not welcome at Origins Game Fair, GAMA Expo or any event affiliated with our organization." [URL='https://www.facebook.com/jeffdee01/posts/4712987975396292?__cft__[0]=AZVHmsfulWgwb0rYupWAEy9t4KkiQOEbVXpcmNCbTuwa1YSBQB-ZljyhIuOry7XDbqzEjcX9X02Afg8EuYAy-7ImlUbTIpKL8I-8hOyiL3waUI22RjCALh7LLaaXexxMaQc&[B]tn[/B]=%2CO%2CP-R'][B]Jeff Dee[/B][/URL] -- "There is a rumor going around that I am part of this new TSR company. That is not accurate. I have done some work for them as a freelance artist. That’s how I make my living, and spreading the misinformation that I’m now employed full-time by one particular client could stop other clients from approaching me and hurt my business. So, please do not spread that rumor. If I ever become a full-time employee anywhere again, I will announce that myself. Thanks. UPDATE: After investigating reports about statements made by representatives of this new TSR, I have determined that I can no longer do business with them in good conscience. I've returned their downpayment on the next piece of art I was scheduled to do for them. And yeah, I could sure use some new commissions to make up for this big hit on my cashflow" [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-mystery-deepens-jim-ward-knows-nothing-about-a-new-tsr.680873/'][B]Jim Ward[/B][/URL], an original TSR alumnus and who wrote [I]Giantlands[/I], TSR3's flagship product -- "At the present time I know little or nothing about the relaunch of TSR. Right now I don't see how anyone could pick up where the old company left off. Yes it's a name with some logos, that is all I know." [URL='https://twitter.com/lukegygax/status/1408475315882520578'][B]Luke Gygax[/B][/URL] -- "FYI- I am not involved with any TSR company nor is Gary Con nor anyone else in my family outside of Ernie. Full stop. That is all ... I have reasons for distancing myself. The way TSR treats people online in their public exchanges is rude. The museum is a for profit business and was asking for donations. Using names of people to promote without their knowledge. Going out of the way to talk gender/woke stuff ... Also basically jacking the TSR logo from Jayson Elliot. The bombastic press releases and claims to old IP. Making a quick nostalgia money grab based on my fathers name and not much else. So I’m making it clear I don’t like this style and I have ZERO to do with TSR" [CENTER][ATTACH type="full" width="400px" alt="Screen Shot 2021-06-27 at 10.16.53 PM.png"]138988[/ATTACH] [I]TSR3 responds to Luke Gygax[/I][/CENTER] [URL='https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe34PFuwwn4&t=2820s'][B]Tim Kask[/B][/URL][B],[/B] an original TSR alumnus who worked at the company until 1980, spoke at length on this topic in a YouTube video (below). I've transcribed some bits, but he says a whole load more (ellipses represent sections I have not included, for reasons of brevity), so check out the video for the whole thing. [callout]"There has been bandied about in social media over the last several days several claims about what's going on in Lake Geneva right now. Ernie Gygax made a most egregious mistake in an interview he did on a podcast. He basically waved his bare ass in front of everybody that's concerned about pronouns, and woke, and all that right now in the industry and thumbed his nose at them. [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/ernie-gygax-on-new-tsr-wotc-beefs-trademarks-licensees-5e-more.680877/']The transcript of his podcasts are there for everyone to read[/URL]. That they were men, and they didn't give a sh*t, and la la la. But right there they alienated three quarters of the gaming industry. Probably more than that, I don't believe that there's a quarter of the gaming industry that still are the neanderthals that he would make us out to be. That's another thing. This whole thing has brought the OSR (the old school revival) into serious disrepute. Now there are some little Karens going on some of the social media and painting with the same brush all of us that were there back then based on the stupid ass sh*t that Ernie just said. No. We weren't all like that. And we aren't all like that now. He's a troll, a troglodyte, a neanderthal, if he really means that. It's a foolish person that doesn't wet his finger once in a while and feel the wind shift. Now there've been claims in a couple of posts, one of which is by Ernie, about how the stalwarts, the old TSR are flocking to the banner. Bullsh*t.... ... There is no one of the creative side of TSR from the early days involved with the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum. No one. Not one creative person. No matter who might be claiming what, they simply do not have the credentials. Being named DiMaggio does not mean you can hit a lot of home runs. Or that you even hit any home runs .... ... Just because you say you're TSR doesn't mean you are." [/callout] [CENTER][MEDIA=youtube]Fe34PFuwwn4:2820[/MEDIA] [/CENTER] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Companies & Freelancers Distance Themselves From The New TSR
Top