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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Black Dougal" data-source="post: 8322973" data-attributes="member: 7031346">If I recall correctly the Moldvay Basic has examples of play with male and female PCs and players, there were even some icons in there like Morgan Ironwolf. The 1st edition DMG also had example play but I'd have to check to be sure. I was young when I first starting playing (7) in 1981 with older kids teaching me. I think a lot of the art seemed like comic book art to me with well-endowed females and super muscular dudes, I felt the vibe and tropes were "knights rescuing princesses etc.". I do recall the gendered stats limits, and whatnot.Then there is the infamous Palace of the Silver Princess module and escapades, which's an interesting one. Management in that instance was smart enough to realize it was a problem. That was Gary making the call. Haha but the reasons were varied, from sexism and bad taste to I believe Erol Otus taking a shot at management when he made them Ettins.I was too young to realize what sexism was and I did not need D&D to teach me sexism, I already knew women were weaker than men, but they were good at families and nurturing etc. because society and my dad told me (I don't believe this just my being taught this and not by D&D). Society, pop culture, and my father taught me sexist crap. I mean Marvel and DC could be brought into it.The irony is some of the artists in those older works are some of the same artists here in this thread who are definitely more progressive now. Young men, some still teenagers with a love of fantasy, art, comics, games, hobbies etc. made mistakes and or were emulating the culture then. Jeff Dee illustrated Morgan Ironwolf, and Erol Otus took part in Silver Princess, I believe both were not even 20 yet. I think WoTC did good, or at least started in the right direction with the disclaimers on the older modules. Which is also what 3SR was misrepresenting. WoTC was not attacking Gary or the creators. It's common sense in 2021. Especially now that real young kids, I was young, are now a major market and we've become more inclusive as a culture but still have a long way to go. It's kind of like gaslighting with the trying to cancel Gary and company line Justin threw out there.Anyway, babble off.</blockquote>

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