Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part IX: Paladin)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8799961" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Well, let's see.</p><p></p><p>Wardens in 4e were, as stated, very "sticky." They were very, very good at keeping enemies locked down where the Warden wanted them, which usually meant "next to me, because I can take the hits." Stickiness is difficult to achieve in 5e in general for a variety of reasons, but you might be able to kludge something together, especially with UA and a DM open to favorable options (e.g. bringing back Marking and allowing non-Reaction OAs when opponents violate the mark.)</p><p></p><p>Wardens, like most Primal characters, tended to have absolute gobs of HP (most Primal classes had Con as a key stat, either prime or secondary, and tended to get more baseline HP per level, with the Warden getting more base HP than any other class in 4e.) This is theoretically doable with the Tough feat, but...well, that's honestly kind of a dull feat so it sucks to have to take that.</p><p></p><p>Wardens specialized in <em>not</em> wearing heavy armor (they had features vaguely like Unarmored Defense that only applied while wearing medium or light armor.) There are no 5e Paladin features which particularly support wearing medium armor, unfortunately. </p><p></p><p>Wardens called on the powers of the land itself to do damage. Some Earthbender-type stuff (due to one of the initial builds being "Earthstrength"), though they had no singular elemental affinity. Things like calling on spirits of thunder or physically zooming around the battlefield like a hungry predator.</p><p></p><p>The biggest thing though, at least for my money, was the Warden daily powers. Almost all* Warden daily powers were "Form of X," where X was some super thematic natural thing, which would give you (essentially) a stance effect for the remainder of the encounter. Notably, these powers all had the "Polymorph" keyword. This means they actually do <em>physically transform</em> the Warden while active. Each one would give some sort of significant effect, often changing terrain, making zones, or otherwise altering the world around the Warden--hence the emphasis on "stickiness" at the start, because by locking enemies down near herself, the Warden was very good at forcing enemies to deal with whatever Form she had manifested.</p><p></p><p>Here's an example of a 1st-level daily Warden power: <em>Form of Winter's Herald.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p>For clarity, powers have a common format for the header:</p><p><Type> ✦ <List of Keywords></p><p><Action> | <Range></p><p>"Attack" defines the stat used for the bonus and the defense targeted (the options being AC, Fortitude, Reflex, or Will, which are static defenses on the target, not saves the target must roll.) "Effects" always occur, unless the text gives a reason why they shouldn't. "Special" things are additional characteristics or features which only apply under certain circumstances. "Resist N <type>" means you ignore the first N points of damage of the given type(s) from a particular action/source. (If the damage has multiple types, you must resist all of them to have resistance apply.) Note, I have cut out the fluff text at the head of the power, though all powers have such text between the name and the mechanics.</p><p></p><p>Notice how this power affects the Warden herself (+1 AC and resist 5 cold) as well as the world around her (difficult terrain in a 2-square--aka 10'--radius.) Further, her attack immobilizes an opponent no matter what, but that effect is stronger if she hits.</p><p></p><p>Past the early levels (that is, by level 9 or higher), this is the kind of thing a 4e Warden should be doing a couple of fights a day, every day. There's...really nothing comparable to this in the Paladin, be it spells or class/subclass features. The closest thing is their <em>capstone</em> ability, which they don't even get until 20th level, and that's <em>once</em> each day. You can kinda-sorta kludge something out of a few of the Paladin's aura spells...but nothing that says "nature" pops out at me from the spells I can see. Even the closest semi-examples require 3rd or higher level spells.</p><p></p><p>*The only exceptions are at level 5 and 19. Not really sure why those got the more "smite-y" kind of powers, but hey, it's what they are.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8799961, member: 6790260"] Well, let's see. Wardens in 4e were, as stated, very "sticky." They were very, very good at keeping enemies locked down where the Warden wanted them, which usually meant "next to me, because I can take the hits." Stickiness is difficult to achieve in 5e in general for a variety of reasons, but you might be able to kludge something together, especially with UA and a DM open to favorable options (e.g. bringing back Marking and allowing non-Reaction OAs when opponents violate the mark.) Wardens, like most Primal characters, tended to have absolute gobs of HP (most Primal classes had Con as a key stat, either prime or secondary, and tended to get more baseline HP per level, with the Warden getting more base HP than any other class in 4e.) This is theoretically doable with the Tough feat, but...well, that's honestly kind of a dull feat so it sucks to have to take that. Wardens specialized in [I]not[/I] wearing heavy armor (they had features vaguely like Unarmored Defense that only applied while wearing medium or light armor.) There are no 5e Paladin features which particularly support wearing medium armor, unfortunately. Wardens called on the powers of the land itself to do damage. Some Earthbender-type stuff (due to one of the initial builds being "Earthstrength"), though they had no singular elemental affinity. Things like calling on spirits of thunder or physically zooming around the battlefield like a hungry predator. The biggest thing though, at least for my money, was the Warden daily powers. Almost all* Warden daily powers were "Form of X," where X was some super thematic natural thing, which would give you (essentially) a stance effect for the remainder of the encounter. Notably, these powers all had the "Polymorph" keyword. This means they actually do [I]physically transform[/I] the Warden while active. Each one would give some sort of significant effect, often changing terrain, making zones, or otherwise altering the world around the Warden--hence the emphasis on "stickiness" at the start, because by locking enemies down near herself, the Warden was very good at forcing enemies to deal with whatever Form she had manifested. Here's an example of a 1st-level daily Warden power: [I]Form of Winter's Herald.[/I] For clarity, powers have a common format for the header: <Type> ✦ <List of Keywords> <Action> | <Range> "Attack" defines the stat used for the bonus and the defense targeted (the options being AC, Fortitude, Reflex, or Will, which are static defenses on the target, not saves the target must roll.) "Effects" always occur, unless the text gives a reason why they shouldn't. "Special" things are additional characteristics or features which only apply under certain circumstances. "Resist N <type>" means you ignore the first N points of damage of the given type(s) from a particular action/source. (If the damage has multiple types, you must resist all of them to have resistance apply.) Note, I have cut out the fluff text at the head of the power, though all powers have such text between the name and the mechanics. Notice how this power affects the Warden herself (+1 AC and resist 5 cold) as well as the world around her (difficult terrain in a 2-square--aka 10'--radius.) Further, her attack immobilizes an opponent no matter what, but that effect is stronger if she hits. Past the early levels (that is, by level 9 or higher), this is the kind of thing a 4e Warden should be doing a couple of fights a day, every day. There's...really nothing comparable to this in the Paladin, be it spells or class/subclass features. The closest thing is their [I]capstone[/I] ability, which they don't even get until 20th level, and that's [I]once[/I] each day. You can kinda-sorta kludge something out of a few of the Paladin's aura spells...but nothing that says "nature" pops out at me from the spells I can see. Even the closest semi-examples require 3rd or higher level spells. *The only exceptions are at level 5 and 19. Not really sure why those got the more "smite-y" kind of powers, but hey, it's what they are. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part IX: Paladin)
Top