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Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part IX: Paladin)
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8800681" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>I hadn't considered taking inspiration from <em>booming blade</em>, that is a potential direction to take things, sure. The big issue, to me, is that third point. 5e enforces pretty strict limits on what characters are allowed to do, and the community at large is <em>hypervigiliant</em> about certain things being "overpowered." (Consider, for example, how even people on this forum who scoff at the concept of "balance" react with dismay or scorn at the suggestion that you could have a Warlord regularly granting attacks to allies due to how allegedly unbalanced it would be if paired with Rogue Sneak Attack.)</p><p></p><p>Perhaps I am cynical and jaded, but at least the 5e books we have (more on that momentarily) are, as I said, a weird mix of too restrictive and too open-ended to make a lot of this work. The restrictions enforce some actually pretty draconian limits on what classes are even allowed to attempt, especially if they don't use spells. (Spells, as usual, are a huge problem point for D&D design...) And then on the open-ended side, there's so much that the books are silent on, or worse, don't even seem to consider in the first place. That is, the difference between "an empty space where maybe rules <em>could</em> have been written, but there aren't any," and "rules for that <em>can't be written for this system</em>, at least not without pulling out its guts and completely rewiring them," a la Level Up.</p><p></p><p>It doesn't help that there's an <em>intensely</em> conservative fanbase that fights back against even the smallest deviations. I floated the trial balloon of a PrC once, years ago. The response, in multiple places not just here, was somewhere between "completely ignored" and "drowned out by negative responses." The very <em>idea</em> of a PrC gets peoples' backs up, not because the concept of a restricted-length alternate class option is actually bad, but because several people think "ah, that crappy thing from 3e? Absolutely not ever, doesn't matter how much you change it." (If you're curious, I can send you a link. I never got the chance to playtest it--literally never found a group willing after more than six months, so I eventually gave up--so I can't actually promise it's balanced. But I gave it my best shot.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>It certainly seems like the "One D&D" playtest lacks the anti-4e animus present in the D&D Next playtest. We'll see what that ends up actually producing in the end. I've been burned enough times to not bother having any expectations, other than "more of the same." (E.g. the playtest dragonborn was deeply disappointing, even if technically the new version of dragon breath did a bit more damage than the PHB version.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8800681, member: 6790260"] I hadn't considered taking inspiration from [I]booming blade[/I], that is a potential direction to take things, sure. The big issue, to me, is that third point. 5e enforces pretty strict limits on what characters are allowed to do, and the community at large is [I]hypervigiliant[/I] about certain things being "overpowered." (Consider, for example, how even people on this forum who scoff at the concept of "balance" react with dismay or scorn at the suggestion that you could have a Warlord regularly granting attacks to allies due to how allegedly unbalanced it would be if paired with Rogue Sneak Attack.) Perhaps I am cynical and jaded, but at least the 5e books we have (more on that momentarily) are, as I said, a weird mix of too restrictive and too open-ended to make a lot of this work. The restrictions enforce some actually pretty draconian limits on what classes are even allowed to attempt, especially if they don't use spells. (Spells, as usual, are a huge problem point for D&D design...) And then on the open-ended side, there's so much that the books are silent on, or worse, don't even seem to consider in the first place. That is, the difference between "an empty space where maybe rules [I]could[/I] have been written, but there aren't any," and "rules for that [I]can't be written for this system[/I], at least not without pulling out its guts and completely rewiring them," a la Level Up. It doesn't help that there's an [I]intensely[/I] conservative fanbase that fights back against even the smallest deviations. I floated the trial balloon of a PrC once, years ago. The response, in multiple places not just here, was somewhere between "completely ignored" and "drowned out by negative responses." The very [I]idea[/I] of a PrC gets peoples' backs up, not because the concept of a restricted-length alternate class option is actually bad, but because several people think "ah, that crappy thing from 3e? Absolutely not ever, doesn't matter how much you change it." (If you're curious, I can send you a link. I never got the chance to playtest it--literally never found a group willing after more than six months, so I eventually gave up--so I can't actually promise it's balanced. But I gave it my best shot.) It certainly seems like the "One D&D" playtest lacks the anti-4e animus present in the D&D Next playtest. We'll see what that ends up actually producing in the end. I've been burned enough times to not bother having any expectations, other than "more of the same." (E.g. the playtest dragonborn was deeply disappointing, even if technically the new version of dragon breath did a bit more damage than the PHB version.) [/QUOTE]
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