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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8801875" data-attributes="member: 6790260">It doesn't really seem that way from its description. "The Oath of Devotion binds a paladin to the loftiest ideals of justice, virtue, and order. Sometimes called cavaliers, white knights, or holy warriors, these paladins meet the ideal of the knight in shining armor, acting with honor in pursuit of justice and the greater good. They hold themselves to the highest standards of conduct, and some, for better or worse, hold the rest of the world to the same standards." The only way this is different from devotion-in-the-generic is the requirement of goodness. Remove the requirement of goodness and it literally is just "be devoted to something." In fact, in pure mechanical terms, nothing about the Oath of Devotion requires you to be good. You could very easily be an evil Devotion Paladin--because it's protection from evil and good, after all. And everyone knows Lucifer was an angel...I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the parenthetical. Redemption is about helping others to achieve redemption, not about finding it yourself (though you totally could do that, it wouldn't contradict anything, it's just not what the oath is about.) The Redemption features are all about nonviolence, diplomacy, and incapacitation instead of killing--but even the example oath tenets explicitly say, "Any such action [read: passing lethal judgment on an evildoer] must be carefully weighed and the consequences fully understood, but once you have made the decision, follow through with it knowing your path is just."I mean, sure? I'm not really challenging that. I'm just saying, this is blander than unflavored oatmeal. It is, in effect, "Paladin, just Good." Which almost all Paladins will be good regardless, so...yeah. I get that there is a reason such things should exist. But it's incredibly dull and boring. The only subclasses that are more boring than Devotion are Champion Fighter and Berserker Barbarian, and those died right quick.But they're still about devotion. That's my point. Devotion is the heart of what the Paladin class is. It doesn't matter that the Oath of Devotion entails goodness; to be a Paladin IS to be devoted. ALL Oaths are devotional. Every single one of them. Hence my statement about "cookie-flavored cookies." I wouldn't--at all--mind there being a...I dunno, "Oath of Righteousness," where it's about being an absolutely sterling example of moral rectitude for others, and sometimes encouraging (or bullying) others to follow that example. Beacuse not all Paladins will be righteous. But EVERY Paladin, absolutely all Paladins, will be devoted.Again, I think it should be rewritten to actually reflect that it is about devotion to righteousness, not about devotion-in-general. Because all Paladins, by definition, are devoted to something. "devotion, n.: 1. profound dedication, especially to religion. 2. earnest attachment to a cause, person, etc." But profound dedication to the Bane, the Lord of War, or Erathis, the Law-Queen, means quite different things from being a Paladin with profound dedication to righteousness.</blockquote>

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