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Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XV: The FINAL ROUND)
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<blockquote data-quote="Shadowdweller00" data-source="post: 8846897" data-attributes="member: 6778479"><p>I likewise apologize if my response came out harsh or as a "you're doing it wrong" sort of thing? Harsh doesn't phase me, personally.</p><p></p><p>In answer to your question: It may just be a matter of my personal perceptions, really. Magic just feels more...special...or believable (versimilitudinous?) when there are usage limits on it to me. There ARE balance considerations as well, which I cited. It breaks my subconscious perception of thermodynamics and thus suspension of disbelief to be able to conjure fuel-less fire or acid from nothing all day long without apparent energy source or limits. From a dramatic standpoint, I think physical damage resistance and regeneration should be terrifying to a foe. And with how easy they are to bypass in 5e, even completely inadvertently, with basic, no-cost energy cantrips they just aren't.</p><p></p><p>A +1 sword isn't terribly exciting if everyone and their mother has one sitting in their desk drawer. But it becomes much more exciting if it is rare, difficult to obtain, and/or is the key to defeating the horrible, invulnerable monsters that are bearing down on your village. Even if the idea of a weapon-use cantrip or spell is still magic, it doesn't trigger the same sense of wonder-dilution to me personally (as flying energy bolts). It just feels more mundane. YMMV, naturally.</p><p></p><p>Progressing from "I like things this other way" to pushing things things at another's throat is more of an... individual choice afaict.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, it did. And there would ultimately come a point in level progression where magic-users would be casting powerful magic all day long. But in practical levels and situations, there would often occasionally be fights where the caster would not want to waste spells. Or where a whole bunch of minions got in the caster's face and put a lockdown on slower (e.g. non-blasting) spells. That was usually when the dagger or darts came out.</p><p></p><p>Often found similar things going on with non-casters and more mundane objects and abilities in 1e/2e myself. The thief using flour or rolling barrels along the floor to find secret doors, traps. Greasing the steps with soap or shoe polish. Vomiting up stomach acid (pardon the image) to stop the troll from coming back to life. Seemed like that was the base expectation for adventuring, full stop. The flip-side being that more widely applicable spells or tools tended to be less effective for any given purpose. Kind of the DM's responsibility to maintain balance. I like to see my players trying to use things creatively, myself? Doesn't mean I have to let them get away with it every time.</p><p></p><p>As it happens, spells which allow or facilitate (to an unreasonable degree) a 5mwd are the most likely to suffer DM-side alterations in my games.</p><p></p><p></p><p>By "on the fly" I meant suddenly giving the BBEG charm immunity or extra HP in response to a particular tactic one wasn't expecting. I'm still not entirely clear on what you mean by "rug pull" or "illusionism" if you're referring to something else?</p><p></p><p>Every bit as condescending as the immediate post (not yours) it was in response to I hope.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Shadowdweller00, post: 8846897, member: 6778479"] I likewise apologize if my response came out harsh or as a "you're doing it wrong" sort of thing? Harsh doesn't phase me, personally. In answer to your question: It may just be a matter of my personal perceptions, really. Magic just feels more...special...or believable (versimilitudinous?) when there are usage limits on it to me. There ARE balance considerations as well, which I cited. It breaks my subconscious perception of thermodynamics and thus suspension of disbelief to be able to conjure fuel-less fire or acid from nothing all day long without apparent energy source or limits. From a dramatic standpoint, I think physical damage resistance and regeneration should be terrifying to a foe. And with how easy they are to bypass in 5e, even completely inadvertently, with basic, no-cost energy cantrips they just aren't. A +1 sword isn't terribly exciting if everyone and their mother has one sitting in their desk drawer. But it becomes much more exciting if it is rare, difficult to obtain, and/or is the key to defeating the horrible, invulnerable monsters that are bearing down on your village. Even if the idea of a weapon-use cantrip or spell is still magic, it doesn't trigger the same sense of wonder-dilution to me personally (as flying energy bolts). It just feels more mundane. YMMV, naturally. Progressing from "I like things this other way" to pushing things things at another's throat is more of an... individual choice afaict. Yes, it did. And there would ultimately come a point in level progression where magic-users would be casting powerful magic all day long. But in practical levels and situations, there would often occasionally be fights where the caster would not want to waste spells. Or where a whole bunch of minions got in the caster's face and put a lockdown on slower (e.g. non-blasting) spells. That was usually when the dagger or darts came out. Often found similar things going on with non-casters and more mundane objects and abilities in 1e/2e myself. The thief using flour or rolling barrels along the floor to find secret doors, traps. Greasing the steps with soap or shoe polish. Vomiting up stomach acid (pardon the image) to stop the troll from coming back to life. Seemed like that was the base expectation for adventuring, full stop. The flip-side being that more widely applicable spells or tools tended to be less effective for any given purpose. Kind of the DM's responsibility to maintain balance. I like to see my players trying to use things creatively, myself? Doesn't mean I have to let them get away with it every time. As it happens, spells which allow or facilitate (to an unreasonable degree) a 5mwd are the most likely to suffer DM-side alterations in my games. By "on the fly" I meant suddenly giving the BBEG charm immunity or extra HP in response to a particular tactic one wasn't expecting. I'm still not entirely clear on what you mean by "rug pull" or "illusionism" if you're referring to something else? Every bit as condescending as the immediate post (not yours) it was in response to I hope. [/QUOTE]
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