Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XV: The FINAL ROUND)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8847328" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>I believe that <s>spell</s> <em>app</em> has existed for some time, though only in <s>wand</s> <em>dedicated device </em>form: <em>tazer</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The problem is, spells are by definition ubiquitous already in any game where magic-users are a playable class. Literally the instant you have a book with a list of the existing spells and a class built around using them, spells automatically become ubiquitous. As you continue to play, <em>this form</em> of "wonder and specialness" will <em>always</em> disappear. And even if you can recapture it, it will decay away again--usually faster than before, because there will be preserved patterns (e.g. <em>fireball</em> is OP damage for its spell level because Tradition.)</p><p></p><p>The only way to address this is to rely on <em>other</em> forms of wonder and specialness which are not subject to this kind of dilution-by-familiarity. Hence my statements above WRT: description and banality. An absolutely unique and powerful item described in a banal way will not be special. A mundane, relatively ordinary (if non-standard) item described in a vibrant and dripping-with-lore way will be special, even though mechanically it's nothing to write home about.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Believe it or not, 4e actually solved this problem relatively early on. The so-called "Inherent Bonuses" system,* which IIRC was first printed for 4e Dark Sun, makes it so <em>any weapon you pick up is +N</em>, in terms of how effective it is. If you wield a bar stool, it's the equivalent of a +4 bar stool if you are at least level 17, doesn't matter if it's literally the most mundane bar stool in the world, you can wield it with skill. Due to the way magic items worked in 4e, it was almost always still <em>possible</em> to get a "better than inherent bonus" item, e.g. picking up a +3 sword at level 10, but if you genuinely loved your Sword of Squirrel Summoning, you could hold onto it and the difference would be made up for in two levels.</p><p></p><p>Further, magic item enchanting was intentionally fast and relatively fluid. E.g., if your Fighter had an iconic khopesh he looted from the Pyramid of the Phantom Pharaoh, but he later found an axe he'd never use but which had a cool enchantment, the "enchant a magic item" ritual could be used to <em>transfer</em> the enchantment from the axe to the khopesh (since khopeshes are in the axe and heavy blade weapon groups.) That way, you can either keep your iconic "of Squirrel Summoning" enchantment and pass it to a new, more preferable weapon form/potency, or keep your weapon and apply the "of Gorgonic Gouging" enchantment to it to replace the "of Squirrel Summoning."</p><p></p><p><em>Should you ever wish to implement this yourself, the 4e version gave +1 hit and damage at level 5n+2: 2, 7, 12, etc. It also gave +1 to AC and all defenses at level 5n+4: 4, 9, 14, etc. Given 5e has 2/3 as many levels and scales up to magic items *half</em> as large, the calculations will work out a little wonky, but something like level 6, 12, 18 might work. Likewise for AC/save boosters, perhaps level 4, 10, 16?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8847328, member: 6790260"] I believe that [S]spell[/S] [I]app[/I] has existed for some time, though only in [S]wand[/S] [I]dedicated device [/I]form: [I]tazer[/I]. The problem is, spells are by definition ubiquitous already in any game where magic-users are a playable class. Literally the instant you have a book with a list of the existing spells and a class built around using them, spells automatically become ubiquitous. As you continue to play, [I]this form[/I] of "wonder and specialness" will [I]always[/I] disappear. And even if you can recapture it, it will decay away again--usually faster than before, because there will be preserved patterns (e.g. [I]fireball[/I] is OP damage for its spell level because Tradition.) The only way to address this is to rely on [I]other[/I] forms of wonder and specialness which are not subject to this kind of dilution-by-familiarity. Hence my statements above WRT: description and banality. An absolutely unique and powerful item described in a banal way will not be special. A mundane, relatively ordinary (if non-standard) item described in a vibrant and dripping-with-lore way will be special, even though mechanically it's nothing to write home about. Believe it or not, 4e actually solved this problem relatively early on. The so-called "Inherent Bonuses" system,* which IIRC was first printed for 4e Dark Sun, makes it so [I]any weapon you pick up is +N[/I], in terms of how effective it is. If you wield a bar stool, it's the equivalent of a +4 bar stool if you are at least level 17, doesn't matter if it's literally the most mundane bar stool in the world, you can wield it with skill. Due to the way magic items worked in 4e, it was almost always still [I]possible[/I] to get a "better than inherent bonus" item, e.g. picking up a +3 sword at level 10, but if you genuinely loved your Sword of Squirrel Summoning, you could hold onto it and the difference would be made up for in two levels. Further, magic item enchanting was intentionally fast and relatively fluid. E.g., if your Fighter had an iconic khopesh he looted from the Pyramid of the Phantom Pharaoh, but he later found an axe he'd never use but which had a cool enchantment, the "enchant a magic item" ritual could be used to [I]transfer[/I] the enchantment from the axe to the khopesh (since khopeshes are in the axe and heavy blade weapon groups.) That way, you can either keep your iconic "of Squirrel Summoning" enchantment and pass it to a new, more preferable weapon form/potency, or keep your weapon and apply the "of Gorgonic Gouging" enchantment to it to replace the "of Squirrel Summoning." [I]Should you ever wish to implement this yourself, the 4e version gave +1 hit and damage at level 5n+2: 2, 7, 12, etc. It also gave +1 to AC and all defenses at level 5n+4: 4, 9, 14, etc. Given 5e has 2/3 as many levels and scales up to magic items *half[/I] as large, the calculations will work out a little wonky, but something like level 6, 12, 18 might work. Likewise for AC/save boosters, perhaps level 4, 10, 16? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XV: The FINAL ROUND)
Top