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<blockquote data-quote="tagwort" data-source="post: 6591128" data-attributes="member: 6792614">What class/subclass would you personally choose (for fun and/or effectiveness) for a character designed around &quot;trickery&quot; magic to confuse and control enemies? It seems like there's a large number of ways to go about it with 5th ED classes: Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock, Land Druid, Trickery Cleric, and Arcane Trickster all seem like viable options, depending on what sort of twist you want to put on it.I'm personally concerned only with the Charisma-based casters because I feel the &quot;party face&quot; roll suits enchanters/illusionists/tricksters well, but for the sake of discussion, I don't want to exclude any options.Some of my thoughts comparing the CHA casters:BARD seems like the most obvious embodiment of the tricky caster, with a spell selection focused on illusions, deception, control, and support. Expertise and Jack-of-all-Trades enables the bard to function as both the &quot;face&quot; and the &quot;rogue&quot; (or whatever other utility the player wants to provide). Musical magic fits the flavor well (Pied Piper, Demon Fiddler, Siren, etc), and spamming &quot;Vicious Mockery&quot; sounds like a lot of fun.SORCERER has been labeled &quot;just a blaster&quot;, but Metamagic opens up a lot of powerful options for a tricky-minded caster: Twin Phantasmal Force, Quickened spells while Eyebiting, Heightened Suggestion, etc. Subtle Metamagic also enables Sorcerers to be the only truly stealthy casters (and I imagine a trickster wants to be stealthy). An Ice Dragon-blooded's Frostbite cantrip functions like a more damaging/narrower version of Vicious Mockery, and Draconic Presence finishes the concept perfectly. A Wild Mage has more accurate control spells than any other caster in the game.WARLOCK is severely lacking in spells, but bursting with &quot;beguiler&quot; flavor and at-will utility. Though combat might get dull spamming Eldritch Blast, Archfey and Old One patrons enhance the concept both mechanically and conceptually (Greater Invisibility or Telekinesis/Black Tentacles, combat charms or telepathy/Create Thrall). At-will Disguise Self and Silent Image compensate somewhat for the lack of spells, and Chain/Book pact options both provide immense out-of-combat utility on top of that.TL;DR I'm indecisive, and this game strikes me as infuriatingly well-balanced. So what would your pick for Enchanter/Illusionist/Beguiler be?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tagwort, post: 6591128, member: 6792614"] What class/subclass would you personally choose (for fun and/or effectiveness) for a character designed around "trickery" magic to confuse and control enemies? It seems like there's a large number of ways to go about it with 5th ED classes: Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock, Land Druid, Trickery Cleric, and Arcane Trickster all seem like viable options, depending on what sort of twist you want to put on it. I'm personally concerned only with the Charisma-based casters because I feel the "party face" roll suits enchanters/illusionists/tricksters well, but for the sake of discussion, I don't want to exclude any options. Some of my thoughts comparing the CHA casters: [B]BARD[/B] seems like the most obvious embodiment of the tricky caster, with a spell selection focused on illusions, deception, control, and support. Expertise and Jack-of-all-Trades enables the bard to function as both the "face" and the "rogue" (or whatever other utility the player wants to provide). Musical magic fits the flavor well (Pied Piper, Demon Fiddler, Siren, etc), and spamming "Vicious Mockery" sounds like a lot of fun. [B]SORCERER[/B] has been labeled "just a blaster", but Metamagic opens up a lot of powerful options for a tricky-minded caster: Twin Phantasmal Force, Quickened spells while Eyebiting, Heightened Suggestion, etc. Subtle Metamagic also enables Sorcerers to be the only truly stealthy casters (and I imagine a trickster wants to be stealthy). An Ice Dragon-blooded's Frostbite cantrip functions like a more damaging/narrower version of Vicious Mockery, and Draconic Presence finishes the concept perfectly. A Wild Mage has more accurate control spells than any other caster in the game. [B] WARLOCK[/B] is severely lacking in spells, but bursting with "beguiler" flavor and at-will utility. Though combat might get dull spamming Eldritch Blast, Archfey and Old One patrons enhance the concept both mechanically and conceptually (Greater Invisibility or Telekinesis/Black Tentacles, combat charms or telepathy/Create Thrall). At-will Disguise Self and Silent Image compensate somewhat for the lack of spells, and Chain/Book pact options both provide immense out-of-combat utility on top of that. TL;DR I'm indecisive, and this game strikes me as infuriatingly well-balanced. So what would your pick for Enchanter/Illusionist/Beguiler be? [/QUOTE]

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