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Comparing Monk DPR
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8243612" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Let us break this down for a second.</p><p></p><p>18 dexterity.</p><p>16 intelligence</p><p>Bladesinging feature</p><p>1st level spell</p><p>3rd level spell</p><p>Reaction 1st level spell</p><p></p><p></p><p>That is a lot. But it is also using a lot of resources. So, I can completely see the argument that Bracers of Defense added to all of this is troublesome. But, this meaning that the Bracer's shouldn't be changed, because of this one situation, is kind of silly. Especially considering that when the Bracers were designed, this wasn't possible.</p><p></p><p><strong>Three Counter points</strong>.</p><p></p><p>Most Monks with 18 dexterity and 16 wisdom has... 17 AC. 10 points less. They have no access to mage armor (and if they did it wouldn't change anything), no access to shield, no access to haste. If they get the bracers is raises them to 19.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If you gave that bladesinger the option of any magical items to increase their AC, and they picked the Bracers... they've made a mistake. A staff of power gives them the same AC bonus with multiple other benefits. An amulet or cloak of protection gives them only a +1, but it also increases their saves, and since their AC is already so ridiculously high, the +1 is likely not going to help.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you take a fighter or other heavy armor using character, with defensive style and give them a +2 shield, they have an AC of 23. A +2 shield is the same rarity and benefit of Bracers of Defense, but it does not require attunement. And is still better than the Monk.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think anyone is going to argue that Bladesinging wizards who dump everything into getting an amazing AC aren't going to have an amazing AC. But that misses the point of the complaint, to take one of the most extreme examples, and use it as the baseline.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But +2 to an armored character who already has a higher AC isn't a big deal?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Shields taken an action to don has come up... once. In the last seven years of gameplay.</p><p></p><p>It does give you a hand for two weapon fighting. This is not something that wizards, sorcerers or monks will ever use, and it is rarely used for Barbarians. It rarely affects spellcasting at all, because most casters are using their arcane focus anyways, like a staff, and have two free hands. Also, monks aren't spellcasting.</p><p></p><p>Also, shields are AMAZING. I don't get where you have the idea that they aren't good for most people. They are crazy good for most people.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You guys are crazy. Every character who isn't using a bow, non-profiecient, or using a two-handed weapon is using a shield in our games. But no one in our games would ever use the Bracers of Defense.</p><p></p><p>Remember, to use the Bracers, <strong><em>you cannot be wearing armor</em></strong>. Full PLate is 18 AC. That is equivalent to +8 AC over not wearing it. You have to give it up to get a +2. Every single character who can wear light armor can get the exact same benefit of using the bracers by wearing studded leather armor. This item isn't powerful at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8243612, member: 6801228"] Let us break this down for a second. 18 dexterity. 16 intelligence Bladesinging feature 1st level spell 3rd level spell Reaction 1st level spell That is a lot. But it is also using a lot of resources. So, I can completely see the argument that Bracers of Defense added to all of this is troublesome. But, this meaning that the Bracer's shouldn't be changed, because of this one situation, is kind of silly. Especially considering that when the Bracers were designed, this wasn't possible. [B]Three Counter points[/B]. Most Monks with 18 dexterity and 16 wisdom has... 17 AC. 10 points less. They have no access to mage armor (and if they did it wouldn't change anything), no access to shield, no access to haste. If they get the bracers is raises them to 19. If you gave that bladesinger the option of any magical items to increase their AC, and they picked the Bracers... they've made a mistake. A staff of power gives them the same AC bonus with multiple other benefits. An amulet or cloak of protection gives them only a +1, but it also increases their saves, and since their AC is already so ridiculously high, the +1 is likely not going to help. If you take a fighter or other heavy armor using character, with defensive style and give them a +2 shield, they have an AC of 23. A +2 shield is the same rarity and benefit of Bracers of Defense, but it does not require attunement. And is still better than the Monk. I don't think anyone is going to argue that Bladesinging wizards who dump everything into getting an amazing AC aren't going to have an amazing AC. But that misses the point of the complaint, to take one of the most extreme examples, and use it as the baseline. But +2 to an armored character who already has a higher AC isn't a big deal? Shields taken an action to don has come up... once. In the last seven years of gameplay. It does give you a hand for two weapon fighting. This is not something that wizards, sorcerers or monks will ever use, and it is rarely used for Barbarians. It rarely affects spellcasting at all, because most casters are using their arcane focus anyways, like a staff, and have two free hands. Also, monks aren't spellcasting. Also, shields are AMAZING. I don't get where you have the idea that they aren't good for most people. They are crazy good for most people. You guys are crazy. Every character who isn't using a bow, non-profiecient, or using a two-handed weapon is using a shield in our games. But no one in our games would ever use the Bracers of Defense. Remember, to use the Bracers, [B][I]you cannot be wearing armor[/I][/B]. Full PLate is 18 AC. That is equivalent to +8 AC over not wearing it. You have to give it up to get a +2. Every single character who can wear light armor can get the exact same benefit of using the bracers by wearing studded leather armor. This item isn't powerful at all. [/QUOTE]
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