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Comparing Monk DPR
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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 8245787" data-attributes="member: 2629"><p>This is not accurate for most of the games in which I've played. Putting aside one shots and short adventures, most of the games extend beyond 12th level, and most have at least once PC being impacted by attunement by 6th level. That usually results in a PC sending an item to another PC that is not up against the limit, even though there are 4 items that would otherwise make sense for them to use.</p><p>While PCs do pool funds, I will point you towards Dragonheist fpr one clear contraindication.to your position.In many games, items can be bought. It doesn't make much sense that items can't be bought. There is a supply and a demand. Basic economics says that there is going to be a potential market.You are in a small minority if your party discards magic items.There are rules in the DMG and Xanathar's explicitly for buying and selling items. It is explicitly RAW. And if you spend 8 hours trying to buy and sell, either your players are really into that part of the game, or you're doing something wrong. Typically, this discussion is only a few minutes of game play at my tables - sometimes a bit longer if there is an interesting angle to the discussion.While it is not uncommon for PCs to spend levels 1 and 2 out and about before going to town, it is rare to not have an option to shop before level 3. Further, if the city is big enough, buying magic armor is usually possible (although +1 item, as a rare item, is well out of reach financially for quite a bit).Your experience is drastically different than many of ours, and is out of alignment with the expectations laid out in the books by the options they present. I've played with about 30 different DMs in the 5E era. I can't think of a single game where we did not have at least one shield using PC.Again, this is a highly unusual view of the game. In all of those campaigns I've played, attunement comes up around level 6. </p><p></p><p>Let's think this through using average rolls and the DMG guidance. </p><p></p><p>If you follow the DMG guidance for hordes (which is less treasure than you find in <em>most</em> published modules) for levels 1 to 4, you'll find an average of 4 GP per monster (for roughly 200 monsters over 4 levels- 800 gp), plus 710 gold, ~1250 in gems and about 3 'reusable' magic items and 10 potions/scrolls. That is roughly 2750 gold worth of liquid assets, 3 items and 10 potions and scrolls. Cost of living expenses eat only about 200 of that gold. </p><p></p><p>At this point, right around 5th level, PCs could pool resources to get platemail for a front line PC. It is 1500, so it would take a lot of effort ... but soon that all changes. Once we hit level 5, those hoards and individual treasures <em>jump</em>. You make an average of three hoard rolls per level at that range, and the treasure is much higher. For individual monsters, the 50 you'll face at level 5 would give you 4000 GP! The three hoards will give you 11,750 gold by level 6. Add in another 2000 gp from gems and art, and then 2 more permanent magic items and 3 more potions and scrolls. Another 50 gp for living expenses.</p><p></p><p>So, at the start of level 6, accumulated wealth estimate is about 20000 in gold or liquid assets, 13 potions/scrolls and 5 magic items. </p><p></p><p>The recommended purchase price for magic items in Xanathar's, which is higher than the DMG's guidance, is about 45 gp for a common, 350 for an uncommon and 11,000 for a rare. </p><p></p><p>A 5 PC party would each get about 1 magic item found, 2 or 3 potions/scrolls and 4000 GP. They can't buy rare items, but they can get up to 10 to 15 uncommon items each! And if they were not saving up funds to buy platemail at levels 1 to 4, they'd have had enough to buy 8 magic items by the time they hit level 5, added to the 3 they found would be 11 magic items for a 5 PC party. </p><p></p><p>That follows the recommendations for treasure found and buying items in the DMG and Xanathar's. </p><p></p><p>So - you can see why in a campaign following book guidance will see PCs start to hit attunement limits around level 6.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 8245787, member: 2629"] This is not accurate for most of the games in which I've played. Putting aside one shots and short adventures, most of the games extend beyond 12th level, and most have at least once PC being impacted by attunement by 6th level. That usually results in a PC sending an item to another PC that is not up against the limit, even though there are 4 items that would otherwise make sense for them to use. While PCs do pool funds, I will point you towards Dragonheist fpr one clear contraindication.to your position.In many games, items can be bought. It doesn't make much sense that items can't be bought. There is a supply and a demand. Basic economics says that there is going to be a potential market.You are in a small minority if your party discards magic items.There are rules in the DMG and Xanathar's explicitly for buying and selling items. It is explicitly RAW. And if you spend 8 hours trying to buy and sell, either your players are really into that part of the game, or you're doing something wrong. Typically, this discussion is only a few minutes of game play at my tables - sometimes a bit longer if there is an interesting angle to the discussion.While it is not uncommon for PCs to spend levels 1 and 2 out and about before going to town, it is rare to not have an option to shop before level 3. Further, if the city is big enough, buying magic armor is usually possible (although +1 item, as a rare item, is well out of reach financially for quite a bit).Your experience is drastically different than many of ours, and is out of alignment with the expectations laid out in the books by the options they present. I've played with about 30 different DMs in the 5E era. I can't think of a single game where we did not have at least one shield using PC.Again, this is a highly unusual view of the game. In all of those campaigns I've played, attunement comes up around level 6. Let's think this through using average rolls and the DMG guidance. If you follow the DMG guidance for hordes (which is less treasure than you find in [I]most[/I] published modules) for levels 1 to 4, you'll find an average of 4 GP per monster (for roughly 200 monsters over 4 levels- 800 gp), plus 710 gold, ~1250 in gems and about 3 'reusable' magic items and 10 potions/scrolls. That is roughly 2750 gold worth of liquid assets, 3 items and 10 potions and scrolls. Cost of living expenses eat only about 200 of that gold. At this point, right around 5th level, PCs could pool resources to get platemail for a front line PC. It is 1500, so it would take a lot of effort ... but soon that all changes. Once we hit level 5, those hoards and individual treasures [I]jump[/I]. You make an average of three hoard rolls per level at that range, and the treasure is much higher. For individual monsters, the 50 you'll face at level 5 would give you 4000 GP! The three hoards will give you 11,750 gold by level 6. Add in another 2000 gp from gems and art, and then 2 more permanent magic items and 3 more potions and scrolls. Another 50 gp for living expenses. So, at the start of level 6, accumulated wealth estimate is about 20000 in gold or liquid assets, 13 potions/scrolls and 5 magic items. The recommended purchase price for magic items in Xanathar's, which is higher than the DMG's guidance, is about 45 gp for a common, 350 for an uncommon and 11,000 for a rare. A 5 PC party would each get about 1 magic item found, 2 or 3 potions/scrolls and 4000 GP. They can't buy rare items, but they can get up to 10 to 15 uncommon items each! And if they were not saving up funds to buy platemail at levels 1 to 4, they'd have had enough to buy 8 magic items by the time they hit level 5, added to the 3 they found would be 11 magic items for a 5 PC party. That follows the recommendations for treasure found and buying items in the DMG and Xanathar's. So - you can see why in a campaign following book guidance will see PCs start to hit attunement limits around level 6. [/QUOTE]
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