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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8248695" data-attributes="member: 6801228">So, in other words, you are making assumptions with little base. For example, there is no reason that two character's couldn't go looking, counting as the Help Action. That gives the character advantage. If the group is working together to ensure that the character is getting what they need, they are likely putting the face towards this challenge. That means you are likely looking at someone with a +6 minimum, and advantage which gives them approximately (for ease of math sake) another +5, for a +11 total. So, a week. Not five. Players leveraging their abilities to be effective is a thing after all. No, the bottom line is that I was talking about meals, and you wanted to talk about Living Expenses. Meals are a part of living Expenses, but you can have them separately. I was also talking about Modest (and you could scrimp and choose to go Poor) and you wanted to talk about Comfortable. So, you are trying to say I was wrong by insisting on changing the value and item to make me wrong. Who says that isn't roleplaying well? Look up famous misers. There were people who were worth hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars who never changed out of the same set of clothes and dug through the trash to eat moldy food all in the desire to save money. If I'm saving my money to buy something important, I might eat a less fancy dinner. It is a thing people do all the time. I'm sorry you put yourself in that situation then, but since most wizards don't hold their books between themselves and incoming weapons, and most fire and acid attacks specify they don't harm items that are being worn or carried, the only time we really could find ourselves in that situation is if the DM specifically set out to have an NPC steal or destroy a spell book. And that just isn't something DMs have tended to do, Sure, that is the "best" thing, but since it has never come up we don't have our wizards spending hundreds or thousands of gold and time to copy their spells into a new spell book that they also put somewhere that we will have to backtrack to. That doesn't answer the question. If the players know the door is unlocked, and they could trivially have someone just turn the handle and open it, why force them to roll if they decide to kick it? What is in doubt? The door is definitely going to end up opened no matter what they roll. Sure, at 8th level with an ASI and a half and a rare magical item taking up an attunement slot, the Monk can match the AC of a fighter who is wearing full plate and carrying a shield (something they have likely had for multiple levels) who has not invested completely into defense. But, again, you are dead wrong about the bolded part. Because all the Fighter needs to "catch up" is to actually be beating the Monk at level 8 by having the Defensive Fighting Style, which gives them +1 to AC. And, while you are crowing a victory over here, remember, it took until 12th level, with all ASIs going into improving the Monks ability scores to raise their AC, to let their magical item be equal to a fighter or paladin in mundane equipment with a level 1 ability. And, if the Fighter or Paladin had a single source of magic that gives them any AC? The Monk is no longer winning in AC. If the Monk wants to get a feat instead of a half feat? They are no longer beating the AC. BoD isn't better than the shield, a Monk can just naturally end up with better AC through their abilities. Which hey, that's great, and important to remember, but then we have to make sure that we answer the question "What if other people have magical items?" And then we find out that other magical items are better than the BoD. Why are they better? Because they required proficiency? That is not a good answer. +1 Armor and Shields are better armor than an item designed to give an AC bonus to people who can't use armor and Shields. A +1 shield is only uncommon, it isn't even Rare, and it is all that is needed to again match or beat the Monk with BoD wh is spending attunement and has a more powerful, rare, item. The point isn't solely that the BoD isn't better than mundane equipment (because it isn't. A Monk with all of their monk abilities but the ability to have shield proficiency gets the exact same benefits) but that ALSO it is a poorly designed item when compared to other similar magical items.I'm sure you are aware of the concept of mark-ups and how this doesn't invalidate my point at all. Useless hyperbole and I'm pretty sure that RAW doesn't state one way or the other about whether or not you should roll for treasure. It exists as an option, not the default. How does getting cheated out of any possible reward for the adventure sound better? I was literally getting nothing. It was a shield that could make a funny face, and I already had a shield given to us randomly and with no importance that increased my initiative, back like 10 levels before this adventure. And this funny-face shield was being given to me by the greatest craftsmen in the multiverse as a reward for saving an entire plane of existence. If other people had gotten dummy items, maybe it would have been different, but I was literally the only person who got a poor roll. Literally everyone else got powerful items, whether they could use them or not. The only possible comparison I can think of is going to receive the Medal of Honor for service in the military, and standing in line alongside your comrades, watching them get the medals, then you get handed some pocket lint. It was utterly jarring, made zero sense, and made everything we had done seem like a joke. There is no RP penalty if you are that paranoid. Heck, it seems to me like that is a great RP element. (In fact, I know this rule because I have a character who is constantly in their armor, even when sleeping. They were trained to always be prepared for deadly combat and they being twitchy and nervous like that is a big part of their character) You know, you are right. DnD is about having fun. So, why would I accept having less fun by having items that are meant only for being goofy and flavorful take up actual resources? That doesn't sound fun, that sounds like wasting time.This isn't even power gaming. Your pipe sounds like a fun magic item, and as a fun magic item that is meant to simply be a weird character detail I'd probably enjoy it. But if you tried to make me attune to it, losing out on bonus I might need when the DM "suddenly" causes us to be ambushed and attacked in town, I'm not going to do it. I want to be ready for when the adventure starts, and something playful like that that serves no purpose isn't worth that risk. If the enemy is close enough to grab my sword, why am I throwing a javelin? Even if I ran towards them and couldn't make it, I would likely be just as good taking the dodge action or readying an attack to hit them when they came into range. And sure, if I didn't have a shield, I could throw that javelin with no problem. But I also have a near constant -2 AC from what I could have, and that makes me easier to hit, which means I lose more HP, and either cost the healers more spell slots or am more likely to get KO'd in battle. That sounds like a poor trade for just the occasional Javelin toss. You do you man, but giving up your entire attack and sneak attack to push someone 5 ft, or end up next to them with them unable to move (because that is all Grapple does, it imposes no other penalties) is not something I have literally ever seen a rogue do. And none of this applies to Clerics. I played a cleric who dumped their dex to an 8 and focused on strength and Wisdom. A generally solid build, if I had chosen a better race for the mechanical side of things. And, this cleric had one thing over the rest of the party. The best AC. He was a walking tank, and incredibly hard to hit. Because Plate and Shield.</blockquote>

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