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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8249449" data-attributes="member: 6801228">So, I can't have a person who is saving their money for a magical item, because people with money either never spend it on anything and thus wouldn't seek magical protection, or they could never have enough self-control to spend simply on food to save the money in the first place. I'm not sure I am the one with the Roleplaying problem here.So, now we are making sure to have a specific spell, with an expensive material component. Or hoping that whoever is targeting the wizard isn't smart enough to look for other copies in the party's gear. Look, I get that wizards can make copies of their spellbook, and that in certain campaigns that is smart. But it isn't how we play, we don't target the class's abilities to nerf them. Could it possibly happen emergently? I guess, but it has never come up before, and none of us expect it to.If we are playing RAW? No, we don't use potions of healing in combat except to give them to another player who is making death saves. A full action to heal less than a full round of combat's damage? That is wasting our time on hoping they miss us. Now, we have homebrewed to allow a person to use a potion as a bonus action, so they see a little bit more use, but honestly, still not much. We do a lot more with magical healing or various abilities in the thick of combat and save the potions for later. And as for the other actions you listed. We don't open and close doors after combat starts, we don't mess with levers after combat starts (and you could totally through a lever with a shield or sword hand). None of this has ever come up in 7 years of 5e game play. And if it did, there are people who aren't using the shield, who can do the thing.1) "He cannot catch up without magic" was your claim. Fighting Styles are not magic, and they let him catch up. 2) An entirely passive ability that is always on versus one that requires a resource and a bonus action and the choice to lower their damage specifically. That is very hard to directly compare.And, I want to take a moment here, because we've been getting some side-tracks and some rabbit holes. I assume that the classes are (roughly) balanced. If you take the fighter out of the PHB and the Monk out of the PHB, they are roughly equivalent in what they can do. However, classes were not balanced with feats and magic items in mind. And this is where the monk has been suffering I think. There are very few feats and very few magical items designed for them. But also, ideally, magical items should be balanced against magical items. And the Monk getting BoD is getting a boost as is, which they should be getting, because Magical Items are a boost to the class. But, all that boost is is +2 AC on a Rare item. And, if we look +2 AC on a Rare item for the Fighter doesn't require attunement, even though it puts them potentially higher than the monk, and it can stack with other AC boosting items like Armor. That is the complaint. That is the disconnect. That +2 AC on the Monk is somehow considered more valuable and needing to be regulated compared to the Fighter getting anywhere between a +1 and a +6 depending on the number and rarity of items. Even though, with completely non-magical set-ups, the fighter has easier access and ultimately higher AC than the monk. The balance of the Magical Items is not right.Which, in raw AC numbers, it isn't. It is +2 AC, a shield is +2 AC. BoD means that you have a free hand, but also that you use an attunment slot and that you cannot wear any armor to gain the benefit. Shield means that you don't have a free hand, but it stacks with literally anything except BoD. For a person who can use armor and a shield, the shield is just flat better 90% of the time.Again, magical items should be balanced against magical items. +2 AC from a Rare item should be equivalent. You want to bring in spells and dodging and all of this other stuff to muddy the waters, but at the end of the day you can't obscure this fact. A +2 shield gives a +2 magical AC bonus, and does not require attunement, and can stack with any armor, even magical armor. BoD gives a +2 magical AC bonus, requires attunement and requires wearing no armor and not using a shield. These items are supposed to be equivalent, but they clearly are not.Yes, I know how the rules work. However, if there was a monk released that could use a shield without losing all that stuff, hypothetically, then the mundane shield is offering pretty much all of the benefits of BoD. That is the point. That is why I don't understand why this item requires attunement, it is only going to be used by one or two classes, and it's benefit doesn't reach beyond other similar items.Because if I get told "and you will all be rewarded for your service" and all of my companions get rewarded, and I get NOTHING then that saps the fun out of it, doesn't it? My character is being cheated, for literally no reason.Oh yes, so funny. "Hey guys, remember that time you all got really cool magical items for saving that dimension, and I got nothing? Wasn't that so funny how you guys got the reward they promised, but a random quirk of fate means I got nothing at all. So amusing, hey, do you think I'll get anything for this next adventure?" By the way, no, that isn't fun, that isn't something I'm going to joke about. And acting like "you were given the gift of playing the game" comes into this at all is insulting. I'd have been fine if no one got a reward for this. We didn't expect a reward for this. But the DM said we were getting a reward, he said it was coming from a place of giving us incredibly magical items, and then because he rolled the dice I got nothing. Being cheated isn't fun. It isn't amusing. It isn't just part of the game.So is taking hp damage. I would have complained if my reward was 8d6 fire damage to the face too. And my entire point was that this was an inappropriate time to roll. I guess you have no problem with the potential of being screwed over by good aligned master craftsmen who are thanking you for doing massively heroic things, but that does bother me. The DM just didn't want to bother looking through the book for rewards, so he rolled on a spreadsheet. We could have gotten cursed items that harmed our characters as a "reward" I don't understand how you can't see that that is detrimental to the game.He doesn't get in the bathtub. Bathtubs aren't invented. And, who cares how many players are that guy? You said it was a roleplaying problem. It isn't. It is roleplaying.When flavor gets in the way of fun, then there are problems.Nothing wrong with being prepared for trouble. It just means we can transition smoothly from doing other things to danger. And in the worlds of DnD that sort of preparedness makes sense.Only clerics, druids, and paladins can use scrolls while using shields, to me knowledge, and no, we rarely ever use scrolls. We tend to get stuff that just isn't very useful in scroll form and save them for RP moments. Covered potionsLighting a torch should not be done in combat, and we rarely bother with torches. Between lanterns, the light cantrips, and darkvision, there is rarely a need for torches. And there is no reason you can't have a lantern strapped to you, and we generally light those before combat. So, again, no. It doesn't come up. And, as for your other example, yeah, sometimes it sucks that you miss out on an attack. Happens. But, if that were the situation, that you killed a guy, and even if you used all your movement you couldn't reach melee with a second, then you have to consider the options. If you stay where you are at, can he reach you? If no, he can't pick up your weapon and attack you with it. If yes, then don't drop your weapon, in fact, fall back a little, see if you can't get him to overextend. One guy is running to raise the alarm, but a second is standing there? Lots wrong with that scenario. Even if you kill the first guy, why isn't the second running to raise the alarm? But, let us say you are right, throwing a javelin would kill one guy, but cause a second to run up to me, grab my own weapon and hit me with it. Great. Let's do that. Because the alarm being raised is worse, right? It is all about calculating what you want, and what is likely to happen. If dropping your weapon allows you to be more likely to reach your goal, that is what you do. This isn't that hard to wrap your mind around.If the difference is that small, why is it a problem to have BoD take no attunement?I don't want to get even further into the weeds with all of this, but I will say that quite often the fact that people need to be in melee to deal damage makes limiting mobility a poor choice. The rogue is not a character who is particularly good at being the focus of attention. You can, with uncanny dodge taking your reaction, but they were not designed for locking down enemies and forcing them to focus on you. I'm glad it works for you, but we take other approaches.Sure, it can be a problem, but it is something you can work around. Plus, it is kind of hard to sneak anyways when no one is bothering to sneak. That group was very head-on with challenges. The only time the negative dex was an issue was actually another rolled magical item. I was given a crossbow that could heal people when shot with it. Seems great for a doctor, until I pointed out to the DM that with no proficiency, and a -1, I'd just be wasting my time trying to use it. That was a box that gave random items though, so not as bad as the reward situation.</blockquote>

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