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Comparing Monk DPR
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8250937" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>A +1 shield being worn gives +3 AC to whatever armor is being worn. And you keep missing the larger points. </p><p></p><p>Yes, a monk + Magical Item being more powerful than a Fighter + Nothing should be what happens. It isn't, unless the monk is very high level and has maxed out their Dex and Wis. This is a price the Monk is paying for their other abilities, a slower progression of AC. </p><p></p><p>And, when giving out magical items, it is fair to assume comparable items for both classes. The fighter getting their +2 AC shield (total +4) is getting a better item than the monk getting BoD. Now, you could be trying to argue that the monk is assumed to have a lower AC, and a boost for a lower AC is more valuable than a boost for a higher AC, but that just doesn't track. If it did, then +1 on Studded Leather would be more valuable than +1 on Full Plate, but it isn't. Those two items are considered identical magical items. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No Rogue or Warlock wants to use BoD. It will give them nothing. </p><p></p><p>Barbarians only want to use it if they have a 20 Con and 16 Dex, allowing their unarmored Defense to be better than wearing half-plate. Then they will want to use it, if they don't get Magical Armor instead. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are comparing oranges to cars here, wearing armor cannot be compared to taking the dodge action. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've never seen a scroll that isn't a spell scroll. I guess there was the scroll of protection, but that is a hyper specific item to be talking about. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We have a party loot page. On that page, which we generally do not look at, we list out all of the potions, spell scrolls, gems, ect that we have. No one in specific wants them, so we leave it random who has it. </p><p></p><p>So, yeah, when fighting a specific monster we don't usually check and see if one of the dozen potions we never use is a potion of cold resistance, or if it was another healing potion for after combat, or if it was a potion of waterbreathing. </p><p></p><p>Anything on our sheets we remember and look at, just not the party loot where a lot of this situational stuff gets put. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is not an issue we generally have. Most magic-users can call up fire or acid. </p><p></p><p>I've only seen one character ever bother with items like oil, my own Rogue Theif who used Fast Hands, </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And that is completely not the same situation at all. </p><p></p><p>Because then you could drop your weapon, run forward 30 ft, then throw your handle/Javelin. The goblin isn't going to run past you, leaving no options to attack you, to grab your weapon you left behind. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nope, a lot of Roll20 games and generally it is a massive melee and the melee characters can reach the majority of the enemies, Very rarely do we have a situation where they get stuck halfway with no enemies to attack. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If most intelligent enemies are going to act predictably, then that is all the better for us to defeat them. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Easy, we put the Sorcerer 35 ft past the melee fighter. Enemy charges past, can't reach the sorcerer except with a weaker thrown weapon and the sorcerer hits them with magic and the fighter, who got a free attack runs up behind them and hits them again. Sorcerer falls back, the enemy charges and I get ANOTHER free attack. Rinse and Repeat and until they turn to fight me after giving me X free attacks. </p><p></p><p>"Smart enemies will always reliably use the same exact strategy and you can't stop them" is a terrible argument, because players are smarter still and will start adjusting to use tactics that take advantage of your consistent targeting of a single member of the party by making them bait to lure the enemy into exactly the position they want.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8250937, member: 6801228"] A +1 shield being worn gives +3 AC to whatever armor is being worn. And you keep missing the larger points. Yes, a monk + Magical Item being more powerful than a Fighter + Nothing should be what happens. It isn't, unless the monk is very high level and has maxed out their Dex and Wis. This is a price the Monk is paying for their other abilities, a slower progression of AC. And, when giving out magical items, it is fair to assume comparable items for both classes. The fighter getting their +2 AC shield (total +4) is getting a better item than the monk getting BoD. Now, you could be trying to argue that the monk is assumed to have a lower AC, and a boost for a lower AC is more valuable than a boost for a higher AC, but that just doesn't track. If it did, then +1 on Studded Leather would be more valuable than +1 on Full Plate, but it isn't. Those two items are considered identical magical items. No Rogue or Warlock wants to use BoD. It will give them nothing. Barbarians only want to use it if they have a 20 Con and 16 Dex, allowing their unarmored Defense to be better than wearing half-plate. Then they will want to use it, if they don't get Magical Armor instead. You are comparing oranges to cars here, wearing armor cannot be compared to taking the dodge action. I've never seen a scroll that isn't a spell scroll. I guess there was the scroll of protection, but that is a hyper specific item to be talking about. We have a party loot page. On that page, which we generally do not look at, we list out all of the potions, spell scrolls, gems, ect that we have. No one in specific wants them, so we leave it random who has it. So, yeah, when fighting a specific monster we don't usually check and see if one of the dozen potions we never use is a potion of cold resistance, or if it was another healing potion for after combat, or if it was a potion of waterbreathing. Anything on our sheets we remember and look at, just not the party loot where a lot of this situational stuff gets put. That is not an issue we generally have. Most magic-users can call up fire or acid. I've only seen one character ever bother with items like oil, my own Rogue Theif who used Fast Hands, And that is completely not the same situation at all. Because then you could drop your weapon, run forward 30 ft, then throw your handle/Javelin. The goblin isn't going to run past you, leaving no options to attack you, to grab your weapon you left behind. Nope, a lot of Roll20 games and generally it is a massive melee and the melee characters can reach the majority of the enemies, Very rarely do we have a situation where they get stuck halfway with no enemies to attack. If most intelligent enemies are going to act predictably, then that is all the better for us to defeat them. Easy, we put the Sorcerer 35 ft past the melee fighter. Enemy charges past, can't reach the sorcerer except with a weaker thrown weapon and the sorcerer hits them with magic and the fighter, who got a free attack runs up behind them and hits them again. Sorcerer falls back, the enemy charges and I get ANOTHER free attack. Rinse and Repeat and until they turn to fight me after giving me X free attacks. "Smart enemies will always reliably use the same exact strategy and you can't stop them" is a terrible argument, because players are smarter still and will start adjusting to use tactics that take advantage of your consistent targeting of a single member of the party by making them bait to lure the enemy into exactly the position they want. [/QUOTE]
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