Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Comparing Monk DPR
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="auburn2" data-source="post: 8251884" data-attributes="member: 6855259"><p>Mage armor has a range of touch, not self. If any character in the party has it, any other can benefit from it (up to the limit of slots). You can also use scrolls and if you can buy magic items you can bet a party is going to have a backpack full of them.</p><p></p><p>Yes a Warlock does need to give up an invocation (if a wizard or sorc can't cast it on him) and that is a tradeoff. Likewise a fighter needs to give up damage to pick up a shield, that too is a tradeoff. You seem to be focused on one of those tradeoffs and not the other.</p><p></p><p>Further you seem to think every character will obviously spend thousands of gold on a +1 AC boost, even when it comes with disadvantage on stealth and encumberence. If that is true then why would characters not spend a slot or money for scrolls for a +1 AC boost without those limfacs?</p><p></p><p>If +1 AC is as important as you claim then the Warlock would certainly get a mage armor invocation, and Rogues would certainly have mage Armor through some means.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Most Barbarians have at least a decent stealth if not in armor due to a good dexterity.</p><p></p><p>Further the +1 to Rogues and Warlocks mentioned above has no negatives, is a stronger bonus because base AC is lower and was dismissed by you.</p><p></p><p>Either the +1 is worth it or it is not.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It is costiler for sure. Superior has a lot of nuances to it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yep, giving up damage for the entire rest of the battle.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your words <em>"Very rarely do we have a situation where they get stuck halfway with no enemies to attack."</em></p><p></p><p>Even if the enemy blindly rushes at you (which I would argue is predictable), you will regularly have too much separation to get in s melee attack in the first turn. Also what do you do when you win initiative? You rush up to them so they can land attacks on the first turn?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Because the enemies are predictable.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If you start more than 30 feet away and you do not use missile weapons you will lose attacks. Period.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of the types you listed, off the top of my head - Duergar can go invisible and Drow can use darkness, which enables both of those races to go right by you without letting you get an AOO on them. Numerous undead have abilities that enable that sort of thing too. I assume your DM doesn't play them like this, which to me sounds like they are "being predictable".</p><p></p><p>Moreover I think orcs are more common than all these monsters except undead (which is actually a type and not a monster). I also notice youconveniently left off goblins, who can take disengage and do this too.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Not an extra attack, he can make a normal attack on me and is prevented from making an attack on anyone else at all.</p><p></p><p>Further if my Barbarian is low on hps he can attack with impunity. He can take reckless attack and get advantage even while he attacks bad guy. Then after he attacks I attack bad guy and I move bad guy away so bad guy can't attack Barbarian back. Barbarion moves and attacks, then I attack bad guy and move bad guy away so he can't attack Barbarian. I am getting SA every turn, Barbarian is getting advantage every turn and bad guy can't attack Barbarian at all.</p><p></p><p>The only way the enemy can break this cycle is killing me, wasting an action to beat the grapple or taking a ready action to target the Barbarian.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I get it. You don't do anything except swing your sword, you made that clear. Why do they even have oil in the game! More importantly, why do many (most) classes start with it?</p><p></p><p>I use oil all the time, and I don't always attack the enemy with it (although I do that on occasion), usually I pour it on the ground or throw it at the ground below an enemy. These require no attack roll. Then light it the next turn (or that turn if you are a thief) or let your wizard light it with an AOE spell. An extra 10 damage if the enemy stays there and no attack rolls needed. I also use it for traps a lot (along with caltrops). I don't use it all the time, but I do when I want something to reliably do damage. It works great on a high AC target or if I have disadvantage. The fighter can swing his sword with disadvantage if he wants, but he isn't going to reliably do that 19 you mention if he does.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They aren't going to be hammering much if they have a shield. Your Rogue is probably averaging more DPR unless the fighter goes nova with things like maneuvers and action surge.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="auburn2, post: 8251884, member: 6855259"] Mage armor has a range of touch, not self. If any character in the party has it, any other can benefit from it (up to the limit of slots). You can also use scrolls and if you can buy magic items you can bet a party is going to have a backpack full of them. Yes a Warlock does need to give up an invocation (if a wizard or sorc can't cast it on him) and that is a tradeoff. Likewise a fighter needs to give up damage to pick up a shield, that too is a tradeoff. You seem to be focused on one of those tradeoffs and not the other. Further you seem to think every character will obviously spend thousands of gold on a +1 AC boost, even when it comes with disadvantage on stealth and encumberence. If that is true then why would characters not spend a slot or money for scrolls for a +1 AC boost without those limfacs? If +1 AC is as important as you claim then the Warlock would certainly get a mage armor invocation, and Rogues would certainly have mage Armor through some means. Most Barbarians have at least a decent stealth if not in armor due to a good dexterity. Further the +1 to Rogues and Warlocks mentioned above has no negatives, is a stronger bonus because base AC is lower and was dismissed by you. Either the +1 is worth it or it is not. It is costiler for sure. Superior has a lot of nuances to it. Yep, giving up damage for the entire rest of the battle. Your words [I]"Very rarely do we have a situation where they get stuck halfway with no enemies to attack."[/I] Even if the enemy blindly rushes at you (which I would argue is predictable), you will regularly have too much separation to get in s melee attack in the first turn. Also what do you do when you win initiative? You rush up to them so they can land attacks on the first turn? Because the enemies are predictable. If you start more than 30 feet away and you do not use missile weapons you will lose attacks. Period. Of the types you listed, off the top of my head - Duergar can go invisible and Drow can use darkness, which enables both of those races to go right by you without letting you get an AOO on them. Numerous undead have abilities that enable that sort of thing too. I assume your DM doesn't play them like this, which to me sounds like they are "being predictable". Moreover I think orcs are more common than all these monsters except undead (which is actually a type and not a monster). I also notice youconveniently left off goblins, who can take disengage and do this too. Not an extra attack, he can make a normal attack on me and is prevented from making an attack on anyone else at all. Further if my Barbarian is low on hps he can attack with impunity. He can take reckless attack and get advantage even while he attacks bad guy. Then after he attacks I attack bad guy and I move bad guy away so bad guy can't attack Barbarian back. Barbarion moves and attacks, then I attack bad guy and move bad guy away so he can't attack Barbarian. I am getting SA every turn, Barbarian is getting advantage every turn and bad guy can't attack Barbarian at all. The only way the enemy can break this cycle is killing me, wasting an action to beat the grapple or taking a ready action to target the Barbarian. I get it. You don't do anything except swing your sword, you made that clear. Why do they even have oil in the game! More importantly, why do many (most) classes start with it? I use oil all the time, and I don't always attack the enemy with it (although I do that on occasion), usually I pour it on the ground or throw it at the ground below an enemy. These require no attack roll. Then light it the next turn (or that turn if you are a thief) or let your wizard light it with an AOE spell. An extra 10 damage if the enemy stays there and no attack rolls needed. I also use it for traps a lot (along with caltrops). I don't use it all the time, but I do when I want something to reliably do damage. It works great on a high AC target or if I have disadvantage. The fighter can swing his sword with disadvantage if he wants, but he isn't going to reliably do that 19 you mention if he does. They aren't going to be hammering much if they have a shield. Your Rogue is probably averaging more DPR unless the fighter goes nova with things like maneuvers and action surge. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Comparing Monk DPR
Top