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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8253246" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Bladesinger isn't a monk, that's why I said with the monk, because the Monk existed when this item was created, bladesinger came later and from a different company.  And I think I demonstrated a lot of why this item is so niche, and the effect is one that we have already established doesn't require attunement. The only issue you seem to have is that shields are bad and stupid and no one should ever use them.Spell slots are more valuable than gold. And while yes, we do generally buy a few items, we don't go and buy hundreds of items. There is a level of scaling here. And it relies on either a specific party composition or the rogue being an Arcane Trickster and getting to the point where they can afford dozens and dozens of scrolls. Because, again, This trick isn't ideal for a lot of classes. You've basically got Rogue and the arcane casters. And you are creating a consistent and constant resource drain. Spending 1500 gold once is very different from spending 100 gold every single day. I also notice... complete silence in regards to the Mithral Armor. Seems to me that that is a great investment since Stealth is such a huge concern.If you are doing more damage with your normal loadout, you keep it. If your normal load out is sub-optimal... then moving to a more optimal style that you are less optimized for is either a net zero or a net gain. And if it is a net loss... you don't swap your load out. Most of the ones I know don't skulk. Period. We sometimes go stealthy groups. We sometimes don't. Depends on what we feel like for that game and how our characters would act.If you ignore the costs of getting into Mage Armor. You know, the tradeoffs.Half for the Rogue. Unless you are saying that you can only use this plan if there is a rogue and a wizard in the party. Seems... kind of specific in that case.And generally, just moving yourself is plenty to get the positioning you need.AOO are incredibly valuable on a rogue, that is a potential sneak attack you are giving up. And, that first attack may not get sneak attack (depends on initiative I supppose, and if you use your bonus action to hide or take steady aim which grants sneak attack through advantage, or if you are playing an arcane trickster with a familiar, or if you are playing a swachbuckler) but in later turns you are giving up that SA. And, again, generally just moving is good enough to get where you want him, or any of the strategies I mentioned above. And, you seem to rely an awful lot on the enemy running away to prove no loss here, but if they aren't running away then... you are losing actions and potential damage.Was that cantrip an attack or Light? Yes, you took a different action. That is the point. If you can only survive three attacks, and he can only survive three attacks, then grappling him means you risk death and he doesn't. This is not a super deep analysis, this is very baseline.I am aware of how grappling works. You seem to think that a guy who isn't moving needs to be moved around an awful lot. And, if you are planning on using steady aim... why not just use a crossbow? Same damage as your melee weapon, same advantage and you don't need to grapple them first.Your AC shouldn't be better than the barbarians. Might be close. You also have much less health and while you can uncanny dodge a single attack, rage halves all attacks. And if this guy is so scary that it takes both of you, and the barbarian feels like reckless is still good call... how is the rogue really taking that much damage? Especially if this is from turn one and the barbarian is nearly dead from something.Not disagreeing with any of this, but just wondering how the rogue is escaping unscathed enough to just casually be grappling and making enemies focus on him.If the point of oil was damage, then it would do more damage. Kind of like Alchemist fire. Oil is meant to be used in lamps. It lists the damage first, because when people care about that damage they need to find it quickly.Moving in a circle around someone doesn't cause an AOO. The oil covers a single 5 ft square, so unless you have the enemy surrounded so that they cannot move 5ft in any direction without getting an AOO (in which case, why the heck are we bothering with oil, this enemy is locked down HARD with three or more PCs focusing on them) And sure, if you want to grapple and throw oil and light the oil, then drag them back to the oil... all of that for 10 damage. 4 actions. Minimum 4 attacks. That is a minimum of 16 damage if every single attack rolls minimum damage, and there is no SA or other features. Just attacks.Wow your numbers make so little sense. So, first of all, assuming that the Rogue has advantage all the time. You could make the argument that because of Steady Aim that is reasonable. However, it does very clearly give a huge advantage to the rogue to assume that. However, the Fighter then has a potential to use their bonus action. I mean, the rogue is getting it, and there are a lot of ways we could potentially use that bonus action. But, let me not do that. Let me give the Rogue that massive lead by having advantage and the fighter still using only their action. Against an AC 19, fighter has a +6 to hit. On two attacks, that is a 64% chance to land at least a single blow, which will average 10.5 damage. Both attack hitting I believe is 16%, which leaves 20% chance of missing entirely. If I am remembering my math correctly. Advantage gives your rogue a 64% chance to hit... but also a 36% chance to miss entirely. So, giving the rogue all the advantages... the fighter is still less likely to miss and deal zero damage. That is without a third attack as a bonus action. Without getting Shield Master which could give them advantage. Without anything else. And even if you are able to show that a vanilla fighter without advantage hits less often than a rogue with advantage... that does nothing except prove that advantage makes you more accurate and that rogues deal spike damage. Obvious facts.</blockquote>

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