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<blockquote data-quote="UHF" data-source="post: 5336602" data-attributes="member: 95672">I'm inclined to say that the raw experience is pretty much what everyone gets in 4e.&nbsp; In the WOTC forums I've noticed very few players using anything but off the shelf rules and play.&nbsp; Many DMs have house ruled things which later got them into trouble.&nbsp; Probably the most common deviation is using rolled stats, but those DMs aren't complaining.In terms of play, I have to say that I never met a good 1e DM until I hit university 20 years after I started playing.&nbsp; Since then I have met 2 good DMs and frankly I can't understand why they would ever change game systems.&nbsp; They are good at it and their game is fun.&nbsp; They also don't run with a lot of house rules.I would like to note that I think the 9 original 4e modules that WOTC released did a lot of damage to 4e.&nbsp; They were simple dungeon crawls that really gave the feel to 4e detractors that 4e was a video game or miniature game without role playing.&nbsp; I think H1 was pretty much where many players started, and I don't think it was a good experience.&nbsp; (As a 4e fan, I have to say that I feel that any Pathfinder Adventure Path kicks the pants off the WOTC 9.)All that being said, I now DM 4e, and I have to say that my games are far easier to run and my battles are far more cinematic and epic than anything I ever had before.&nbsp; My 1e pall and DM is in fact waiting for Essentials because of this.I went down to one evening of 'Encounters' at the LGS, and I want to say that even half assed DMs (of the kind I grew up with) can produce a reasonably entertaining time with 4e.&nbsp; I don't like the whole 'encounters' thing, its not my style, but even substandard guys can entertain in 4e.&nbsp; This is not true of 1e\2e\3e.I believe that when WOTC says bad things about play experience in older D&amp;D or 3e, they are really referring to DMs of average or below skill.&nbsp; 4e really does level the playing field for those DMs to at least play and entertain.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="UHF, post: 5336602, member: 95672"] I'm inclined to say that the raw experience is pretty much what everyone gets in 4e. In the WOTC forums I've noticed very few players using anything but off the shelf rules and play. Many DMs have house ruled things which later got them into trouble. Probably the most common deviation is using rolled stats, but those DMs aren't complaining. In terms of play, I have to say that I never met a good 1e DM until I hit university 20 years after I started playing. Since then I have met 2 good DMs and frankly I can't understand why they would ever change game systems. They are good at it and their game is fun. They also don't run with a lot of house rules. I would like to note that I think the 9 original 4e modules that WOTC released did a lot of damage to 4e. They were simple dungeon crawls that really gave the feel to 4e detractors that 4e was a video game or miniature game without role playing. I think H1 was pretty much where many players started, and I don't think it was a good experience. (As a 4e fan, I have to say that I feel that [I]any[/I] Pathfinder Adventure Path kicks the pants off the WOTC 9.) All that being said, I now DM 4e, and I have to say that my games are far easier to run and my battles are far more cinematic and epic than anything I ever had before. My 1e pall and DM is in fact waiting for Essentials because of this. I went down to one evening of 'Encounters' at the LGS, and I want to say that even half assed DMs (of the kind I grew up with) can produce a reasonably entertaining time with 4e. I don't like the whole 'encounters' thing, its not my style, but even substandard guys can entertain in 4e. This is not true of 1e\2e\3e. I believe that when WOTC says bad things about play experience in older D&D or 3e, they are really referring to DMs of average or below skill. 4e really does level the playing field for those DMs to at least play and entertain. [/QUOTE]

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