Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Comparison: Strongholds & Dynasties - Empire - Magical Medieval Society - Birthright
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="d4" data-source="post: 1298179" data-attributes="member: 12699"><p>i think there really <em>does</em> need to be a few categories above "metropolis" on the city scale from the DMG. Metropolis starts at 25,000, which is still pretty darn small, even for a medieval city. (well, it might be OK for most medieval European cities, but it doesn't do justice to cities of the age in other parts of the world.)</p><p></p><p>here's some lists i got off of ask.com's geography section:</p><p></p><p><strong>Largest Cities of 1000 AD</strong></p><p>1: Cordova, Spain (450,000)</p><p>2: Kaifeng, China (400,000)</p><p>3: Constantinople, Turkey (300,000) (at this stage, still a Christian city; the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire)</p><p>4: Angkor, Cambodia (200,000)</p><p>5: Kyoto, Japan (175,000)</p><p>6: Cairo, Egypt (135,000)</p><p>7: Baghdad, Iraq (125,000)</p><p>8: Nishapur (Neyshabur), Iran (125,000)</p><p>9: Al-Hasa, Saudi Arabia (110,000)</p><p>10: Patan (Anhilwara), India (100,000)</p><p></p><p>only two of these can even charitably be considered European cities: Constantinople was really a holdover from an earlier time and not really in the sphere of Western Christendom, and Cordova at the time was a Muslim city.</p><p></p><p><strong>Largest Cities of 1500 AD</strong></p><p>1: Beijing, China (672,000)</p><p>2: Vijayanagar, India (500,000)</p><p>3: Cairo, Egypt (400,000)</p><p>4: Hangzhou, China (250,000)</p><p>5: Tabriz, Iran (250,000)</p><p>6: Istanbul, Turkey (200,000)</p><p>7: Gaur, India (200,000)</p><p>8: Paris, France (185,000)</p><p>9: Guangzhou, China (150,000)</p><p>10: Nanjing, China (147,000)</p><p></p><p>Paris is the only European city to make the top 10, but i wouldn't be surprised if London, as well as some Italian and Dutch cities aren't in the 11-20 range.</p><p></p><p>as far as the idea of using cities in multiple hexes to simulate "megalopoli," i don't think that's really needed. S. John Ross' excellent "Medieval Demographics Made Easy" article (which i don't have the link to at the moment... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite3" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":(" />) gives an estimate of approximately 38,500 people per square mile for urban population densities. so the Paris of 1500 at 185,000 people (almost 7.5 times larger than the minimum metropolis size listed in the DMG!) would cover around 4.8 square miles, or a square a little over 2 miles on a side. it would easily fit into a single FoB 12-mile hex. in fact, even the Beijing of 1500 (at 672,000) would only be about 17.4 square miles (assuming the default urban population density given above), or about 4.2 miles on a side if it was a perfect square (which i seem to recall it might have been...), still fitting easily inside a single hex. in fact, since a 12-mile hex has an area very nearly 125 square miles, a city would need to have a population of over 4.8 million (at the default medieval urban population density) to cover an entire hex!</p><p></p><p>[edit]found the link to S. John's article: it's <a href="http://www.io.com/~sjohn/demog.htm" target="_blank">here</a>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="d4, post: 1298179, member: 12699"] i think there really [i]does[/i] need to be a few categories above "metropolis" on the city scale from the DMG. Metropolis starts at 25,000, which is still pretty darn small, even for a medieval city. (well, it might be OK for most medieval European cities, but it doesn't do justice to cities of the age in other parts of the world.) here's some lists i got off of ask.com's geography section: [b]Largest Cities of 1000 AD[/b] 1: Cordova, Spain (450,000) 2: Kaifeng, China (400,000) 3: Constantinople, Turkey (300,000) (at this stage, still a Christian city; the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire) 4: Angkor, Cambodia (200,000) 5: Kyoto, Japan (175,000) 6: Cairo, Egypt (135,000) 7: Baghdad, Iraq (125,000) 8: Nishapur (Neyshabur), Iran (125,000) 9: Al-Hasa, Saudi Arabia (110,000) 10: Patan (Anhilwara), India (100,000) only two of these can even charitably be considered European cities: Constantinople was really a holdover from an earlier time and not really in the sphere of Western Christendom, and Cordova at the time was a Muslim city. [b]Largest Cities of 1500 AD[/b] 1: Beijing, China (672,000) 2: Vijayanagar, India (500,000) 3: Cairo, Egypt (400,000) 4: Hangzhou, China (250,000) 5: Tabriz, Iran (250,000) 6: Istanbul, Turkey (200,000) 7: Gaur, India (200,000) 8: Paris, France (185,000) 9: Guangzhou, China (150,000) 10: Nanjing, China (147,000) Paris is the only European city to make the top 10, but i wouldn't be surprised if London, as well as some Italian and Dutch cities aren't in the 11-20 range. as far as the idea of using cities in multiple hexes to simulate "megalopoli," i don't think that's really needed. S. John Ross' excellent "Medieval Demographics Made Easy" article (which i don't have the link to at the moment... :() gives an estimate of approximately 38,500 people per square mile for urban population densities. so the Paris of 1500 at 185,000 people (almost 7.5 times larger than the minimum metropolis size listed in the DMG!) would cover around 4.8 square miles, or a square a little over 2 miles on a side. it would easily fit into a single FoB 12-mile hex. in fact, even the Beijing of 1500 (at 672,000) would only be about 17.4 square miles (assuming the default urban population density given above), or about 4.2 miles on a side if it was a perfect square (which i seem to recall it might have been...), still fitting easily inside a single hex. in fact, since a 12-mile hex has an area very nearly 125 square miles, a city would need to have a population of over 4.8 million (at the default medieval urban population density) to cover an entire hex! [edit]found the link to S. John's article: it's [url=http://www.io.com/~sjohn/demog.htm]here[/url]. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Comparison: Strongholds & Dynasties - Empire - Magical Medieval Society - Birthright
Top