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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 7827750" data-attributes="member: 16586">[USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]I will start with analysis of Pathfinder 2's noncombat systems. There are some major changes to spell and skill design that make skills more competitive as players level.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Both spells and skills have been curated so they occupy different conceptual niches. Medicine complements rather than competes with healing magic.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">When spells and skills do similar things they tend to have different trade offs and advantages. Charm does things you cannot do with Diplomacy, but Diplomacy does things you cannot do with Charm.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spells like Knock and Discern Lies that used to obviate skills are now potent buffs that benefit dedicated specialists.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Skill feats allow players to extend skills in level appropriate ways so that someone who really invests in Intimidate is capable of much more than someone who is just trained. A high level fighter who is Legendary in Intimidate with Quick Coercion, Group Coercion, and Lasting Coercion can in a 6 second exchange threaten as many as 25 people into doing what he wants them to do for up to a month. With Scare To Death he pretty much has at will Fear that he can apply once per target per minute with the added bonus that on a Critical Success he can literally scare an enemy to death.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Many spells are less certain in effect. Effects like True Seeing, Nondetection, Mindblank, Remove Disease, Dispel Magic and others are no longer automatic and use the new counteracting rules.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spells that used to have lengthy durations now last until your next daily preparation. If you want to maintain them you need to keep slots dedicated to them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Many spells like Teleport, Scrying, Mindblank, Dominate, Raise Dead, Magnificent Mansion and the like are Uncommon meaning they need to be discovered through play.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Other plot device magic has been moved to rituals that take 1 day or more to cast, require secondary casters, and often have fictional positioning requirements and can have nasty consequences for failure. Examples include Atone, Planar Ally, Planar Binding, and Resurrection. These are all Uncommon. Additionally rituals can be cast by anyone with the required skills who has learned them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The spell lists are more focused. Even wizards are specialists.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Even fighters have 5 trained skills out of 16. That does not include Perception (which includes Insight) because that is a separate proficiency every class is at least Trained in.</li> </ul>In general based on what I am seeing both skill users and magic users expand in their capacity to solve noncombat problems. Spells will generally help you do things better, but not solve problems on their own. Spells and skills tend to solve different sorts of problems, but powerful plot device magic is still a strong part of the game and even expanded in some places. Charm can now be indefinite as long as you keep a spell slot dedicated to it.I would say that both spell casters and skill users have a pretty expansive forward trajectory and are both necessary to solve the problems you should come across. In their problem domain dedicated specialists are pretty much untouchable. Spell casters have an edge due to versatility, but mostly because they are also skill users and will use them to complement their spells. A wizard will rely as much on skills as magic.It feels really well tuned to me. I have only seen low levels in play. So far skills are really potent and seem to grow in power as you level. Spells also feel in a good place to me. To a certain extent it seems like high level casters will still be the masters of the universe, but fighters are more like Achilles and Beowulf at the highest levels. They raised martial characters up. They did not not really bring casters down. I like that.</blockquote>

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