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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Complete Disagreement With Mike on Monsters (see post #205)
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<blockquote data-quote="mhacdebhandia" data-source="post: 3720025" data-attributes="member: 18832"><p>An opponent - getting away from "monster", because this is generally true of any challenge you have to overcome - has a purpose in any given context.</p><p></p><p>A minotaur is a dangerous foe in melee, strong and tough. The games rules governing the minotaur in a fight ought to be streamlined towards the goal of having it be a strong, tough melee opponent without worrying about irrelevant details.</p><p></p><p>(The same applies in other types of encounters than combat encounters, too. A minotaur would have certain traits in a social encounter, or a chase scene, and these should be taken into account. I hope they do.)</p><p></p><p>While a PC has a role to play in combat, the fact that the PC is a continuous presence in the gameworld means that a player needs a more comprehensive - and thus more complex - set of rules. Not only does the PC have to have something to do in a fight, a social situation, and a chase scene, they also have to be able to deal with other kinds of encounters and challenges - like climbing a cliff, or navigating a trap-filled dungeon. There are situations and problems a PC will face - and needs the ability to deal with - which the monster never will, because that's not its game function.</p><p></p><p>A PC also exists along a continuum of progression which doesn't necessarily apply to a monster - what my wizard is at 5th level builds upon what he is at 4th, and must do so elegantly and naturally while providing a foundation for further advancement. No such requirement applies to a monster - while it's good to be able to scale up (or scale down) a monster's abilities, that still takes place in the context of its game function as a challenge for the PCs, and thus operates according to different, less comprehensive rules.</p><p></p><p>For instance, a minotaur might need a Climb skill if it's going to be encountered in a sheer-sided valley (or just to account for its natural behaviour, if they're supposed to be mountaineers), but saying "A minotaur needs to be able to Climb" doesn't necessarily translate to "A minotaur's skill points need to be laid out in the same balanced, accounted-for fashion as a PC's skill points" . . . the minotaur really just needs an appropriate bonus to Climb which makes sense for the purpose you want it to be Climbing for.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mhacdebhandia, post: 3720025, member: 18832"] An opponent - getting away from "monster", because this is generally true of any challenge you have to overcome - has a purpose in any given context. A minotaur is a dangerous foe in melee, strong and tough. The games rules governing the minotaur in a fight ought to be streamlined towards the goal of having it be a strong, tough melee opponent without worrying about irrelevant details. (The same applies in other types of encounters than combat encounters, too. A minotaur would have certain traits in a social encounter, or a chase scene, and these should be taken into account. I hope they do.) While a PC has a role to play in combat, the fact that the PC is a continuous presence in the gameworld means that a player needs a more comprehensive - and thus more complex - set of rules. Not only does the PC have to have something to do in a fight, a social situation, and a chase scene, they also have to be able to deal with other kinds of encounters and challenges - like climbing a cliff, or navigating a trap-filled dungeon. There are situations and problems a PC will face - and needs the ability to deal with - which the monster never will, because that's not its game function. A PC also exists along a continuum of progression which doesn't necessarily apply to a monster - what my wizard is at 5th level builds upon what he is at 4th, and must do so elegantly and naturally while providing a foundation for further advancement. No such requirement applies to a monster - while it's good to be able to scale up (or scale down) a monster's abilities, that still takes place in the context of its game function as a challenge for the PCs, and thus operates according to different, less comprehensive rules. For instance, a minotaur might need a Climb skill if it's going to be encountered in a sheer-sided valley (or just to account for its natural behaviour, if they're supposed to be mountaineers), but saying "A minotaur needs to be able to Climb" doesn't necessarily translate to "A minotaur's skill points need to be laid out in the same balanced, accounted-for fashion as a PC's skill points" . . . the minotaur really just needs an appropriate bonus to Climb which makes sense for the purpose you want it to be Climbing for. [/QUOTE]
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Complete Disagreement With Mike on Monsters (see post #205)
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