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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 3731688" data-attributes="member: 957">I'm a bit confused here.There seems to be a blurring of two different ideas.&nbsp; It is one thing to say that a demon can have special abilities that a human character (pc or npc) should not have.&nbsp; It is another thing entirely to say that a demon should have access to abilities that make it automatically out of bounds for the demon to be run by a player.&nbsp; I agree completely that the best game foundation will include limitations of the expected realm of PC abilities and monsters will have a wider range than PCs.&nbsp; But it shouldn't follow at all there this cause any hang-ups.If a player and DM want a full-tilt Minotaur Barbarian or a Demon X PC then the rules should just say &quot;Go for it,you're partly on your own.&nbsp; Just have fun.&nbsp; What makes a fair challenge?&nbsp; Who knows?&nbsp; Just do your best.&nbsp; When should the character level?&nbsp; Who knows?&nbsp; Just do your best.&nbsp; We are making a game that 'works soundly' in this range, but should be fun over a much larger range.&nbsp; Go for it!&nbsp; Have fun!&quot;Obviously the minotaur would be less outside the comfort zone than an extreme demon.&nbsp; But either would work for a group that understands why balance is important to a game and what the implications are of throwing balance out the window.&nbsp; Because a lack of balance can make a sustained fun game harder to do.&nbsp; But it is a million miles from true that balance is required.&nbsp; The RAW should assume balance and just make that clear to anyone who wants to run into uncharted waters.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 3731688, member: 957"] I'm a bit confused here. There seems to be a blurring of two different ideas. It is one thing to say that a demon can have special abilities that a human character (pc or npc) should not have. It is another thing entirely to say that a demon should have access to abilities that make it automatically out of bounds for the demon to be run by a player. I agree completely that the best game foundation will include limitations of the expected realm of PC abilities and monsters will have a wider range than PCs. But it shouldn't follow at all there this cause any hang-ups. If a player and DM want a full-tilt Minotaur Barbarian or a Demon X PC then the rules should just say "Go for it,you're partly on your own. Just have fun. What makes a fair challenge? Who knows? Just do your best. When should the character level? Who knows? Just do your best. We are making a game that 'works soundly' in this range, but should be fun over a much larger range. Go for it! Have fun!" Obviously the minotaur would be less outside the comfort zone than an extreme demon. But either would work for a group that understands why balance is important to a game and what the implications are of throwing balance out the window. Because a lack of balance can make a sustained fun game harder to do. But it is a million miles from true that balance is required. The RAW should assume balance and just make that clear to anyone who wants to run into uncharted waters. [/QUOTE]

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