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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Complete Disagreement With Mike on Monsters (see post #205)
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<blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 3731723" data-attributes="member: 4722"><p>Sure it is. UK did it. You said yourself that the thri-kreen rogue needed <em>some</em> kind of LA - just not as much of one as it was given. You have to account for all those extra abilities somehow...</p><p></p><p></p><p>Not really. There are just some monsters, as there are now, that simply don't have an LA, because the designers feel that said monsters wouldn't be appropriate for PC use, because they have abilities that the PCs shouldn't have. The xorn, for example, is a bad choice for a PC. Instead of saying "Ditch the LA system because it doesn't work", they should a) look at all the monsters that could be used as PCs, then b) make adjustments as necessary so they could be usable as PCs; then c) assign LAs. Mind flayers, for example, are arguably too powerful for use as PCs, but then, they're a little too powerful anyway. Rakshasa are another one. </p><p></p><p></p><p>If you use those tactics as guidelines, rather than hard and fast rules, then you'd be better off, IMO. The tactics are great for newbie DMs, or DMs who've never run a pit fiend before. A experienced DM would certainly deviate from the prescribed list of actions, or throw it out entirely.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed. I'm worried that the monsters will be nothing more than a (cut-down) collection of stats and nothing more.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh come on, Sean... it's called DM fiat. Sometimes the bad guys have to have something the PCs don't, just so the DM can maintain an edge over the players and give them a challenge. 2E was rife with this, and while I agree for the most part that PCs should be able to do most things that an NPC could, there should be some things that remain firmly in the realm of the DM, <em>as long as he can do it within the rules.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p>You need look no further than the DMG for the Dragon Disciple, which also grants a breath weapon.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't totally agree with the idea of having monster races as PCs, but if other groups want to do it, more power to them - I just think it's silly. Some people are just strange like that, and the rules are flexible enough to allow it, so... *shrug*</p><p></p><p></p><p>Never happen. It can't - CR and HD are totally different measures of a creature's power, and should never be equated with each other.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Right... but I think maybe it <em>should</em> say "FOR NPC USE ONLY, GUYS!"</p><p></p><p></p><p>Even if it says "This PrC is intended for DM use only", WotC isn't going to send a hit squad to your house if you let a PC use it. Too many DMs let themselves be strait-jacketed by the RAW, and they refuse to say "I think this is a silly rule, so I'll alter it." I think having a caveat in some cases would be a GOOD thing - "This PrC is intended for DM use, because in playtesting it turned out to be very powerful in PC hands, blah blah blah." Then the DM would at least KNOW that he's introducing a potentially game-breaking element into his game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kerrick, post: 3731723, member: 4722"] Sure it is. UK did it. You said yourself that the thri-kreen rogue needed [i]some[/i] kind of LA - just not as much of one as it was given. You have to account for all those extra abilities somehow... Not really. There are just some monsters, as there are now, that simply don't have an LA, because the designers feel that said monsters wouldn't be appropriate for PC use, because they have abilities that the PCs shouldn't have. The xorn, for example, is a bad choice for a PC. Instead of saying "Ditch the LA system because it doesn't work", they should a) look at all the monsters that could be used as PCs, then b) make adjustments as necessary so they could be usable as PCs; then c) assign LAs. Mind flayers, for example, are arguably too powerful for use as PCs, but then, they're a little too powerful anyway. Rakshasa are another one. If you use those tactics as guidelines, rather than hard and fast rules, then you'd be better off, IMO. The tactics are great for newbie DMs, or DMs who've never run a pit fiend before. A experienced DM would certainly deviate from the prescribed list of actions, or throw it out entirely. Agreed. I'm worried that the monsters will be nothing more than a (cut-down) collection of stats and nothing more. Oh come on, Sean... it's called DM fiat. Sometimes the bad guys have to have something the PCs don't, just so the DM can maintain an edge over the players and give them a challenge. 2E was rife with this, and while I agree for the most part that PCs should be able to do most things that an NPC could, there should be some things that remain firmly in the realm of the DM, [i]as long as he can do it within the rules.[/i] You need look no further than the DMG for the Dragon Disciple, which also grants a breath weapon. I don't totally agree with the idea of having monster races as PCs, but if other groups want to do it, more power to them - I just think it's silly. Some people are just strange like that, and the rules are flexible enough to allow it, so... *shrug* Never happen. It can't - CR and HD are totally different measures of a creature's power, and should never be equated with each other. Right... but I think maybe it [i]should[/i] say "FOR NPC USE ONLY, GUYS!" Even if it says "This PrC is intended for DM use only", WotC isn't going to send a hit squad to your house if you let a PC use it. Too many DMs let themselves be strait-jacketed by the RAW, and they refuse to say "I think this is a silly rule, so I'll alter it." I think having a caveat in some cases would be a GOOD thing - "This PrC is intended for DM use, because in playtesting it turned out to be very powerful in PC hands, blah blah blah." Then the DM would at least KNOW that he's introducing a potentially game-breaking element into his game. [/QUOTE]
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