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Message: <blockquote data-quote="spunky_mutters" data-source="post: 3731764" data-attributes="member: 5426">The big problem with the divide between monsters and PCs is when the monster abilities are designed with the idea that they will never be used by PCs, and yet there are ways that PCs can get them.This is the case with the Sarrukh's manipulate form ability. The desire to stat out and label what is essentially a story element as an Su ability opened the gate for PCs to grab. This is obviously the most extreme example, but it just goes to show how badly things can go if you don't have very strict metadesign rules.I'm all for having a homogeneous system underlying all of the stats, but everybody needs to be aware of the side effects that can occur when you tie everything together tightly. When something is as egregious a game-breaker as Pun-Pun, it's easy to say no, but not all cases are like that. With no balancing or level ratings between various Su abilities (or 4e equivalents), it puts you (as DM) in the position of having to decide everything on a case-by-case basis (where players can gain access to these abilities). Short of rating monster abilities with levels like PC spells, I think a series of guidelines for incorporating monsters that are not presented as PC races as characters is about the best way to handle this.</blockquote>