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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 3732441" data-attributes="member: 22882">To say that D&D is closer to Lovecraftian horror than it is to four-color supers runs completely counter to my experience of the game in novels, in electronic games, in artwork, and in actual play.Is this not the game often described (often, inappropriately, derided) as 'fantasy supers' because of the mythic-level powers the PCs wield?A 20th level barbarian or fighter in 3e is, to an ordinary person, nearly as alien and inhuman in his POWER as Cthulhu, and moreso than most non-'divine' Mythos creatures.  At the very least he is closer to Superman than he is to Batman.  The 20th level character's mindset may be more comprehensible (or is that just a conceit we tell ourselves to be able to play him?), but his power is such that, if there weren't explicitly called-out gods with another 40 hit dice and salient divine abilities to smack him down, he could easily be considered a god by humans.  He is capable of annihilating a moderately-sized army of human or goblin or orc warriors without even bothering with tactics, just by wading into their midst and reaping them by the THOUSANDS.  If he uses his typical array of tactical movement options (i.e. magic items), he can probably kill an entire country by sheer martial might and battle experience.Now consider that the 20th level barbarian or fighter is a PIKER (and much closer to human) compared to a 20th level wizard.  A 20th level wizard can literally BEND REALITY TO HIS WILL.  It costs some of his life energy to do it in the most potent and flexible manner possible (XP cost for wish), but he can do it, and he can do it multiple times per day.  He can stop time.  He can move between two points instantaneously.  He can control another person's mind and force her to do something completely anathema to the core of her being, or he can invade that mind in dreams or even in the waking world, twisting, changing or even protecting its contents.  He can fly (trivially) and rain fire upon the earth and wipe out an army with a word.  He can assume any form he wants (and again, he can do it several times daily).  He can duplicate his body and transcend death itself.  He can walk a million worlds in the flesh or in spirit, perceive entities utterly alien to human comprehension - AND KILL THEM AND TAKE THEIR STUFF.  He can CREATE WORLDS.A 20th level wizard in 3e is more powerful than Superman (albeit probably not Silver Age Superman); there is nothing Cthulhu can do that a 20th level wizard can't, and there are things a 20th level wizard can do that have never been described as within Cthulhu's power.  The Great Old One is older and eviler and a whole lot stronger when he manifests physically, but his powers have apparent limits that a 20th level wizard's don't.  The wizard is Nyarlathotep for a few minutes a day, GREATER than Cthulhu - he just runs out of that unbelievable power quickly if he doesn't conserve it.Somehow, the thought of one of these transcendent beings, superheroes in all but name, at the very least equivalent to Solars in Exalted, being advanced from a corporeal creature with as odd a form as a mind flayer doesn't seem all that strange to me; 20th level PCs transcend mind flayerdom almost as much as they do humanity.</blockquote>

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