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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Complete Disagreement With Mike on Monsters (see post #205)
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<blockquote data-quote="Kraydak" data-source="post: 3765554" data-attributes="member: 12306"><p>Charming an enemy does mean that if you want to buff it, you need to know what bonus types it is running. If you want to give it stuff (weapons/armor) you need to know its current equipement, proficiencies and gear related abilities. If you want to do things like that, you need to know the *provenance* of the bonuses. Which means you need the complications. Can you simplify meaningfully while keeping adequate complexity? I find it quite unlikely.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As I noted, if you remove meaningfull combat options (disarm, sunder, surprise, dispell etc...) you remove the need to include the stats those options need. I have to say though, I cannot find the idea to be particularly appealing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Among other things, you missed AC and its breakdown, as well as the ability of the goblin to use other weapons. The rogue wants to sneak up to the camp at night and steal the gear? You convinced the goblins to join you on an attack against some kobolds and you wanted to loan them some excess gear? Oops. And that is one of the simplest humanoid brutes available. How about a skilled warrior brute template? Or a mystical fey warrior brute template? Or a berserking goblin template? Or an exotic weaponsmaster brute template?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What are you going to remove and keep the options in a meaningfull manner?! The 3.5 stat block has precious little fat. Skills might be simplified, but will still need their section. Gear *should* mean something. You *can* cut down on the number of special abilities monsters have, but that isn't going to simplify the simpler monsters in play, nor simplify the *design* of more complicated monsters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The difficulty of SU abilities et al. comes in getting the right ability at the right HD/CR/whatever. Ogre Magi are the classic example of getting it wrong. It has nothing to do with running them in game. The difficulty in running abilities in 3e comes from excessive referencing of other material (a presentation issue, not a development one) and an excessive numbers of abilities (a development one, greatly improved by 3.5).</p><p></p><p>Any system which gets the *power level* right will have similar complexity as a system which gets the power level right by stating up monsters HD by HD. After all, the decisions are *the same*.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kraydak, post: 3765554, member: 12306"] Charming an enemy does mean that if you want to buff it, you need to know what bonus types it is running. If you want to give it stuff (weapons/armor) you need to know its current equipement, proficiencies and gear related abilities. If you want to do things like that, you need to know the *provenance* of the bonuses. Which means you need the complications. Can you simplify meaningfully while keeping adequate complexity? I find it quite unlikely. As I noted, if you remove meaningfull combat options (disarm, sunder, surprise, dispell etc...) you remove the need to include the stats those options need. I have to say though, I cannot find the idea to be particularly appealing. Among other things, you missed AC and its breakdown, as well as the ability of the goblin to use other weapons. The rogue wants to sneak up to the camp at night and steal the gear? You convinced the goblins to join you on an attack against some kobolds and you wanted to loan them some excess gear? Oops. And that is one of the simplest humanoid brutes available. How about a skilled warrior brute template? Or a mystical fey warrior brute template? Or a berserking goblin template? Or an exotic weaponsmaster brute template? What are you going to remove and keep the options in a meaningfull manner?! The 3.5 stat block has precious little fat. Skills might be simplified, but will still need their section. Gear *should* mean something. You *can* cut down on the number of special abilities monsters have, but that isn't going to simplify the simpler monsters in play, nor simplify the *design* of more complicated monsters. The difficulty of SU abilities et al. comes in getting the right ability at the right HD/CR/whatever. Ogre Magi are the classic example of getting it wrong. It has nothing to do with running them in game. The difficulty in running abilities in 3e comes from excessive referencing of other material (a presentation issue, not a development one) and an excessive numbers of abilities (a development one, greatly improved by 3.5). Any system which gets the *power level* right will have similar complexity as a system which gets the power level right by stating up monsters HD by HD. After all, the decisions are *the same*. [/QUOTE]
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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Complete Disagreement With Mike on Monsters (see post #205)
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