Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
[COMPLETE] Looking back at the leatherette series: PHBR, DMGR, HR and more!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Orius" data-source="post: 8231797" data-attributes="member: 8863"><p>And here comes my rant.</p><p></p><p>I never had a physical copy of this book, it was another that went out of print apparently. There was however a plain text file of the book along with some image files in the 2e downloads section of WotC's website some years back and I grabbed that. The rules for castle construction were my main interest, but it was a while before I took a look at it. And in the end, I was disappointed with it.</p><p></p><p>The main disagreement goes back to what I said under Paladin's Handbook: TSR was very firmly in their "the standard D&D game is set in a psuedo-European fantasy world" mindset is here. And this book is very much written with this in mind. I've had problem with this for nearly 20 years now.</p><p></p><p>It goes back to me buying a copy of 3e's Oriental Adventures back in 2002 or 2003. There was a lot of good usable game material in there, but the idea seperating real world based cultures in a manner similar to the real world makes it harder to use the material. Look at how vast the Eurasian landmass is; to mimic it in a homebrew campaign world means the far ends of such a continent are going to be difficult to reach, and probably only with fantastic means like teleportation. So how often is non-European material really going to get used? Plus I find using real world cultural bases to be creatively restrictive. And TSR's material of this sort from that time, like Kara-Tur, the Horde, Maztica, some of the Gazetteers, etc, are also very dry and dull, because they stick too closely to their historical influences and fail to make them interesting from a gaming PoV. OTOH, using real world inspired cultures can be a useful shortcut for things like naming conventions which are harder to make up from scratch and often too easy to do badly. One can come up with something very unique, but then you run the risk of making something like Empire of the Petal Throne which might gain critical acclaim but be far too inaccessible or unfamiliar to players. It's a hard balance to maintain and it's something I struggle with in my world building.</p><p></p><p>Another problem with this book is the same as the previous book -- it has material that should have been in the DMG to begin with. [USER=8461]@Alzrius[/USER] is right, stronghold building and domain management is basically the D&D endgame, and 2e really screwed things up by putting the material here in a separate book. And because castle building and domain management really isn't enough to fill 128 pages, we get padding about how to make your game a psuedo-European snorefest. </p><p></p><p>Anyway because material that is supposed to be part of high level gaming got shoved into stuff like splats or a campaign setting that was released as TSR entered its terminal decline, it became a less important aspect of the game. Then when 3e came along, and players really started to notice the balance problems of high level play, there was no end game to transition to. 5e gives some brief lip service to it in its DMG, but I can't comment on whether later material in the edition covers it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Orius, post: 8231797, member: 8863"] And here comes my rant. I never had a physical copy of this book, it was another that went out of print apparently. There was however a plain text file of the book along with some image files in the 2e downloads section of WotC's website some years back and I grabbed that. The rules for castle construction were my main interest, but it was a while before I took a look at it. And in the end, I was disappointed with it. The main disagreement goes back to what I said under Paladin's Handbook: TSR was very firmly in their "the standard D&D game is set in a psuedo-European fantasy world" mindset is here. And this book is very much written with this in mind. I've had problem with this for nearly 20 years now. It goes back to me buying a copy of 3e's Oriental Adventures back in 2002 or 2003. There was a lot of good usable game material in there, but the idea seperating real world based cultures in a manner similar to the real world makes it harder to use the material. Look at how vast the Eurasian landmass is; to mimic it in a homebrew campaign world means the far ends of such a continent are going to be difficult to reach, and probably only with fantastic means like teleportation. So how often is non-European material really going to get used? Plus I find using real world cultural bases to be creatively restrictive. And TSR's material of this sort from that time, like Kara-Tur, the Horde, Maztica, some of the Gazetteers, etc, are also very dry and dull, because they stick too closely to their historical influences and fail to make them interesting from a gaming PoV. OTOH, using real world inspired cultures can be a useful shortcut for things like naming conventions which are harder to make up from scratch and often too easy to do badly. One can come up with something very unique, but then you run the risk of making something like Empire of the Petal Throne which might gain critical acclaim but be far too inaccessible or unfamiliar to players. It's a hard balance to maintain and it's something I struggle with in my world building. Another problem with this book is the same as the previous book -- it has material that should have been in the DMG to begin with. [USER=8461]@Alzrius[/USER] is right, stronghold building and domain management is basically the D&D endgame, and 2e really screwed things up by putting the material here in a separate book. And because castle building and domain management really isn't enough to fill 128 pages, we get padding about how to make your game a psuedo-European snorefest. Anyway because material that is supposed to be part of high level gaming got shoved into stuff like splats or a campaign setting that was released as TSR entered its terminal decline, it became a less important aspect of the game. Then when 3e came along, and players really started to notice the balance problems of high level play, there was no end game to transition to. 5e gives some brief lip service to it in its DMG, but I can't comment on whether later material in the edition covers it. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
[COMPLETE] Looking back at the leatherette series: PHBR, DMGR, HR and more!
Top