Complete Overload

Zaruthustran

The tingling means it’s working!
Miniatures handbook was neat. A few new classes, a few new prcs, a few new feats.

Then Complete Warrior. 80 prcs. Oddles of feats. More base classes.

Complete Divine is coming. More of same.

Complete Dwarf (called Races of Stone) is a herald of books for races. It has 20 more prcs, and 40 new feats. Yikes!

This is a Complete Overload. A year from now, a new player will be presented with a list of 20 base classes and a feat list that numbers in the high 200s. There is such a thing as too much choice, a point where the class-based system of D&D gets washed out and becomes essentially skill-based. A point where the advantage of D&D (universal game language, where everyone knows what a Fighter is and what the Power Attack feat does) becomes overloaded: where no one knows what a Stonelord is or what the Elusive Target feat does (trick question--it does three things).

Style and feel issues aside, there is the issue of simple portability. A backpack simply can't hold all three core books, plus the splatbooks, plus the sundry books, plus dice and beer. Sure, you only need take what you actively use and you're unlikely to need every book. But isn't it troubling if the rules for one single game takes an entire ROW on your bookshelf? That way lies Rifts, White Wolf, and madness.

I know there's no requirement to buy all these books, the game runs just fine with only the PHB, and so on. I guess having too much content is a better problem to have than too little content. Still, I'm curious if I'm the only one feeling more than a little overwhelmed--or who feels that dev time could be better spent clearing up existing rules issues.

-z
 

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Zaruthustran said:
Miniatures handbook was neat. A few new classes, a few new prcs, a few new feats.

Then Complete Warrior. 80 prcs. Oddles of feats. More base classes.

Complete Divine is coming. More of same.

Complete Dwarf (called Races of Stone) is a herald of books for races. It has 20 more prcs, and 40 new feats. Yikes!

This is a Complete Overload.
-z

Hey, don't forget Unearthed Arcana.
 

I have most of the "core" books for 3E and 3.5E (I don't have the Draconomicon yet), and for the most part, I don't bring all of them to sessions.

Typically, I'll bring the PHB, DMG and MM and possibly one other monster book.

I find the other books useful as design tools, and my players will tend to bring along a class book relevant to their class; especially if they're using a feat or PrC from it. I use a variety of feats, PrC and other things from many books, but mostly I don't feel a need to have the book there for reference. Either I'll just remember what the feat does, or I'll copy out that ability in the adventure notes.

Cheers!
 

I've been feeling overwhelmed by the production schedule for a year now. I think that a more leisurely pace would serve the audience better.

But it doesn't suit the stockholders well. ;)
 

I'm so trying not to make comparisons to 2e-era TSR. I really am. But it's frustrating to see the original plan for not overwhelming folks with splatbooks tossed by the wayside.
 

Zaruthustran said:
This is a Complete Overload. A year from now, a new player will be presented with a list of 20 base classes and a feat list that numbers in the high 200s.

Only if the DM does the dumb thing of tossing all the books on the table and says, "Use anything you want, I don't care."

If, instead, the DM does what he's supposed to do - look through the products and pick and choose carefully what will be available in his campaign, and hands the resulting much shorter list ot the players - the whole problem becomes far less problematic.
 

Piratecat said:
I'm so trying not to make comparisons to 2e-era TSR. I really am. But it's frustrating to see the original plan for not overwhelming folks with splatbooks tossed by the wayside.

I'm still seeing mostly one product a month from now down the line, with much of the prospective crunch being 3.5 updates. I'm not seeing a special deluge.
 

Piratecat said:
I'm so trying not to make comparisons to 2e-era TSR. I really am. But it's frustrating to see the original plan for not overwhelming folks with splatbooks tossed by the wayside.

Are we being overwhelmed?

It might be different for people who buy lots of d20 System books and Forgotten Realms supplements, but apart from a flurry of books over the last couple of months (mainly due to Christmas, I guess), I don't think products have been pouring out of WotC for core D&D.

And there's not that much coming out early next year for Core D&D either.

2003:
January - nothing
February - Savage Species
March - Arms and Equipment Guide - Races of Faerun
April - Fiend Folio
May - nothing - Unapproachable East
June - nothing - Ghostwalk
July - 3.5E PHB, 3.5E DMG, 3.5E MM.
August - nothing
September - nothing
October - Book of Exalted Deeds, Miniatures Handbook* - Underdark
November - Complete Warrior, Draconomicon
December - nothing
2004:
January - Deluxe DM screen, Deluxe PC sheets
February - Unearthed Arcana
March - nothing - Player's Guide to Faerun
April - Expanded Psionics Handbook, Map Folio I
May - Complete Divine
June - nothing - Eberron Campaign Setting
July - Player's Guide to the Planes - Serpent Kingdoms, Shadows of the Last War
August - Map Folio II, Races of Stone

Cheers!
 

Umbran said:
Only if the DM does the dumb thing of tossing all the books on the table and says, "Use anything you want, I don't care."

If, instead, the DM does what he's supposed to do - look through the products and pick and choose carefully what will be available in his campaign, and hands the resulting much shorter list ot the players - the whole problem becomes far less problematic.

Oh yeah, how I wish I was still living in that fabulous age where all my afternoons and evenings I had I could fill with sifting through tons of game material to pick and choose those among the hundreds of feats I compared carefully with others of the same ilk before choosing them, when I had hours at my command to screen every incoming class, prestige class, template and race for it's merits, flaws and how it would fit, or not fit, in any of the campaign worlds of mine. :rolleyes:
 

Geron Raveneye said:
Oh yeah, how I wish I was still living in that fabulous age where all my afternoons and evenings I had I could fill with sifting through tons of game material to pick and choose those among the hundreds of feats I compared carefully with others of the same ilk before choosing them, when I had hours at my command to screen every incoming class, prestige class, template and race for it's merits, flaws and how it would fit, or not fit, in any of the campaign worlds of mine. :rolleyes:

The solution here is simple: "Core rules only, folks, I don't have time to check other stuff for balance."
 

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