Completely spontaneous.

[Inconsequenti-AL]

An idea that's been kicking around in my head:

I find spell preparation to be an escalating timesink in DnD. Wizards, Clerics and Druids can spend a long time preparing their spell lists for the day. This only gets worse as the levels get higher!

For a more streamlined game: The players could prepare before the session - fine as long as they know what's happening. You could have the players prepare a number of different spell lists. Simply pick and tweak the one that suits for todays adventure - this is quite a lot of player work. Quick reference spellbooks might help. I'm sure there are other ways to speed the process up.

Or only use spontaneous casters. I was thinking Psionic types, Favoured souls, UAs spontaneous divines and sorcerors (modified - but lets not get into them here! )

Now the players know what magical resources are at their disposal and can plan accordingly. All much quicker!

From the GMs point of view, it lessens the chance of a 'magical curveball' - I'm sure everyones seen a GM left floundering by suprise player actions... I'm sure a lot of those have been magic related. When designing an adventure, you also have some certainty about what resources the players have access to. Whether these are good or bad things is entirely a matter of GM taste.

Has anyone tried this? Did it work out well?

Any thoughts?

 

[alsih2o]

You could always broaden the idea of schools of magic. Certainschools prepare certain spell lists.

These lists would have 2-5 variants. So, all "fire mages" or "battle mages" or "arcane secretists" or "scryers and peepers" would prepare one of 2-5 lists, a list that owuld reflect their education, teacher and "school".

That gives you way to limit the spell list possibilities of the PC's AND sets up a reward system. If they kick butt they can get access to another kind of school, thereby broadening their available spell lists.

P.S. How are ya' Al?

 

[RangerWickett]

As a DM, I prefer spontaneous casters too, but as a player I like spellcasters to have options. When I was working on the revisions of Elements of Magic, I decided the best way to work it was to have players design 'signature spells' in advance, of which they could have a certain number. Then, if they wanted to cast something else, they could create the spell on the fly, but it would take two full rounds.

For a similar take, if you want spellcasters to have some extra options, you could collapse wizard and sorcerer into one class. They learn the spells as normal as they level up, but can also keep a spellbook. But casting spells out of a spellbook takes two rounds, or a minute, or whatever you say. And it uses up a spell slot of the appropriate level.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

RangerWickett
Makes sense for the Elements of Magic guys. I tested it with another group and it was fun. Unfortunately this group has just had an experiment with AU magic - want to use the 'standard' stuff for a little while.

I guess you could treat the spellbook like a specialised scroll. Perhaps alter the Scribe Scroll feat. The combined spellcaster (worcerror? or sizzard?) could scribe any level apt. spell they are 'familiar with' in there. Even one they don't actually know. Would allow for some of the less used utility spells and a good deal of flexibility, but would limit the selecting of these spells to downtime? If you want to cast it multiple times, you need to scribe it multiple times.


alsih2o
That's a good idea. Guess the specialist lists (in UA?) are a good place to start from. It would certainly make a decent reward for a PC spellcaster.

Was considering a variant of that for specialist sorcerors - the usual gain some powers, lose some flexibility deal.

Probably need to apply the same idea to clerics and druids - given the sheer number of spells they can pick from, it usually seems the problem is more with them than the wizards.



P.S. I've been really good, thanks! Things as usual for the most part, except I finally bought my first house a few weeks ago. Settling in and introducing myself to the joys of DIY. How are things going with you?

 

[kingamy]

You're looking at two sides of a coin when it comes to prepares vs. spontaneous casting, and you need to consider both sides when you make any changes.

Preparing spells takes a lot of time at the start of the adventure (or the start of the day for a multi-day adventure).

Spontaneous spells take more time during combat, when the player has (generally, depending on the mechanics) more options to consider on every turn.

If you have players that plan their actions ahead and are ready to go when their turns come, then you're gold. If you have players that consistently wait until their own turn to even look at the mat, let alone decide what they're going to do, then you're in trouble.

I don't have a soution for you, just wanted to bring in another consideration.

kingamy

 

[Nifft]

Between the Favored Soul, Spirit Shaman (with Spirit powers or Wild Shape), Bard and Sorcerer, I think that WotC has this area covered. I'm seriously considering a campaign with only those spellcasters.

-- N

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Between the Favored Soul, Spirit Shaman (with Spirit powers or Wild Shape), Bard and Sorcerer, I think that WotC has this area covered. I'm seriously considering a campaign with only those spellcasters.

-- N

That's pretty much what I'm thinking... I'll tweak the sorceror a little and probably include the Battle Sorceror. Psionics too.

Wouldn't do it for every game, but this one has a large group at a high enough level that I don't want people to wait for the spell picks. It wants to be 'fighty and flowy'!


kingamy - I expect players to pay attention during the game and plan ahead while they're waiting their turn. Also look up the rules for it. We instituted a dither rule - if you can't decide within about 30 seconds then it skips to the next in the initiative order. Not a strict rule and it really only applies when someone isn't paying attention. But that seems to work.

A very good point - I'd agree that spontaneous can be slow if the caster isn't planning ahead. But almost anything can be - fighters with a lot of combat option feats, paladins with smite/charge/power attack routines and so on.

 

[Imagicka]

Greetings...

What I would love to see is a generic magic system like the one used in Ars Magica.

 

[Remathilis]

I had designed (but never used) a world of all spontaneous casters. This was my setup

Bard: As Is
Hexblade (Complete Warror) As Is
Sorcerer: Use INT instead of CHA and gave them All Knowledges and Decipher Script as class skills (essentially mixing a bit of wizard in)
Mystic (Dragonlance) As Is
Spirit Shaman (Complete Divine): As is
Paladin/Ranger: Spells Known as a Hexblade off the appropriate list, but spontaneously casting.
Any PrC: Adjusted as needed. (usually using the assassin as template)

By the end, it looked alot like the regular D&D crew, but magic was a bit toned down do to lack of overreliance (thanks to limited options) but it was no less powerful. It meant you couldn't have a heal-bag cleric to fix all your aliments, but you COULD still recover in better time than No Magic.

 

[alsih2o]

alsih2o
That's a good idea. Guess the specialist lists (in UA?) are a good place to start from. It would certainly make a decent reward for a PC spellcaster.

P.S. I've been really good, thanks! Things as usual for the most part, except I finally bought my first house a few weeks ago. Settling in and introducing myself to the joys of DIY. How are things going with you?

Rocks here too. I guess I am gonna have ot get UA, this is the third time I have suggested a rules variant that some has said "Oh, like in UA."