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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Complex fighter pitfalls
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<blockquote data-quote="Kraydak" data-source="post: 5954754" data-attributes="member: 12306"><p>4e got around a lot of the problems by declaring that when fluff and crunch conflicted, crunch won, regardless of how conceptually silly the result might be. I really don't think that 5e will keep that decision. I certainly hope it doesn't.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have a hard time seeing how it is possible that a fighter that can kill a dragon in single combat sucks, UNLESS he can also grapple the foe, whose foot weighs more than the fighter's entire encumbrance allotment.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So your problem has <strong>absolutely nothing</strong> to do with Simple Fighter vs. Complex Fighter, and everything to do with <strong>Why Fighter At All</strong>?</p><p></p><p>Actually, that is an easy question to answer. Seriously. Really, really, really easy. What do wizards fear? Huge hit-point, high offense enemies that shed magic like water off a duck's back. That is what a high level Fighters needs to be. That is what high level monsters need to be. All of a sudden, Fighters do the fighting, while the wizards provide backup. Complex vs Simple doesn't even enter the equation, although some attention to out-of-combat abilities would be nice. 3e's 2 skillpoints/level with a weak skill list was, well, indefensible.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yup. Caster/non-Caster parity. Quite easily obtained. Just hand out magic resistance like candy. Kinda like 1e, where all the big names (and little names) saved on 2s. Scarily often, with Magic Resistance percentages on top. It is *amazing* how much ground Fighters lost when they went from saving on 2s and killing wizards in 1.5 rounds (1e/2e) to saving on 15s and taking 3-4 rounds to drop a (decently built) wizard (3e).</p><p></p><p>Again though, I have no idea how the Simple/Complex dichotomy applies.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kraydak, post: 5954754, member: 12306"] 4e got around a lot of the problems by declaring that when fluff and crunch conflicted, crunch won, regardless of how conceptually silly the result might be. I really don't think that 5e will keep that decision. I certainly hope it doesn't. I have a hard time seeing how it is possible that a fighter that can kill a dragon in single combat sucks, UNLESS he can also grapple the foe, whose foot weighs more than the fighter's entire encumbrance allotment. So your problem has [B]absolutely nothing[/B] to do with Simple Fighter vs. Complex Fighter, and everything to do with [B]Why Fighter At All[/B]? Actually, that is an easy question to answer. Seriously. Really, really, really easy. What do wizards fear? Huge hit-point, high offense enemies that shed magic like water off a duck's back. That is what a high level Fighters needs to be. That is what high level monsters need to be. All of a sudden, Fighters do the fighting, while the wizards provide backup. Complex vs Simple doesn't even enter the equation, although some attention to out-of-combat abilities would be nice. 3e's 2 skillpoints/level with a weak skill list was, well, indefensible. Yup. Caster/non-Caster parity. Quite easily obtained. Just hand out magic resistance like candy. Kinda like 1e, where all the big names (and little names) saved on 2s. Scarily often, with Magic Resistance percentages on top. It is *amazing* how much ground Fighters lost when they went from saving on 2s and killing wizards in 1.5 rounds (1e/2e) to saving on 15s and taking 3-4 rounds to drop a (decently built) wizard (3e). Again though, I have no idea how the Simple/Complex dichotomy applies. [/QUOTE]
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