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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TwinBahamut" data-source="post: 5955222" data-attributes="member: 32536">You know, I'm honestly appalled that the opening post started by describing a "complex" fighter as a fighter who has access to trip and disarm of all things, and then went on to say that these things are bad for the fighter to have. This is absurd!There are three genuine complex fighters in D&D history, and all of them were much more interesting than some glorified mook who could maybe grab hold of a foe for a round or two if he was really lucky. The BECMi fighter could throw a bola around an enemy's neck and force it to make a saving throw or die from suffocation. The 3E Warblade was a very complex, fun, and potent class that had all kinds of tricks for direct combat and leadership. The 4E Fighter and its many relatives were all equals with the magical classes in every way. These are the complex fighters, and any attempt to make a new one needs to look at them and build on their successes.I mean, if you want a great thing for fighters to be able to do, look at the Warblade's Iron Heart Surge. A swift action to end any ongoing effect immediately, regardless of what that effect was. Even a Forcecage could be smashed to pieces in a second by a fighter who has that technique. This is exactly the kind of simple, flexible, and very powerful effect that fighters should have access to! It protects them from many effects that otherwise cripple fighters, is strongly linked to the core of the fighter archetype, and makes fighters stand apart from any other class. In fact, you could just give that ability to a simple fighter class and it would work.Also, I utterly despise the idea that the fighter needs to be some kind of completely historically accurate nobody (or even weaker than historically accurate!) who is expected to fight alongside godlike super-mages who stepped straight out of a comic book. Because that is exactly what 3E Wizards were: gods and overpowered comic book superheroes with the serial numbers filed off. That kind of power doesn't even make for an interesting wizard class, and I'd rather see that kind of nonsensical power difference completely abolished (well, abolished again since 4E already did so, and I can't believe that 5E is being so regressive in this manner already). Fighters need to be incredible heroes of legend in their own right, and wizards need to be a bit more reasonable and a lot less like Dr. Strange.</blockquote>

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