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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Vikingkingq" data-source="post: 5955339" data-attributes="member: 66208">A few conceptual points I want to emphasize:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mythic != Magical (at least not that kind of magical). Many mythical heroes have superhuman abilities and powers that are unrelated to the actual casting of spells. Roland cleaves mountains with his sword, Chu Chulainn gets so mad that his body boils entire cauldrons of water, etc. Hercules completes his labors BEFORE he ascends to divinity. These mythical heroes are super-human, but not superheroes; their power doesn't come from coming from another planet or getting bitten by a radioactive spider or wearing a mechanical suit. But they are still mythic heroes.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Superhuman martial heroes are implicitly already in the game. Consider the following: how can a Fighter be physically tough enough to absorb a blow from a dragon and not be turned into paste or strong enough to chop through an Elemental or Golem made of stone/etc. and not be superhumanly strong - given that the base class is potentially capable of doing these things sans magic weapons? The answer is that they must be super-humanly strong and tough. If those implicit levels of super-human ability exist in regards to taking and giving damage, why shouldn't they be applied to other feats of prowess like Grappling or Bull Rushing? </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Super-human martial heroes are inherently necessary for the Fighter class to exist from 1-20. If the existing Fighter class was truly bound by normal human physical standards, then realistically Fighter levels should cap at 5 (a baleen whale, some 30-60 feet long is CR6 after all, and an ordinary human probably couldn't go toe-to-toe with a whale); the same would probably apply to non-spellcasting Rangers, Rogues, Barbarians, etc. If the Fighter (to say nothing of other martial classes) is to be a viable class that is a physical, martial class from 1-20, then it follows necessarily that they be capable of fighting and defeating monsters (or at least surviving) from 1-20, most of whom are beyond the physical capacity of normal humans.  </li> </ul></blockquote>

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