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<blockquote data-quote="Kraydak" data-source="post: 5955596" data-attributes="member: 12306">Let us be honest here.&nbsp; Anyone who want fighters to get narrative power to move rivers in DnD Next is doomed to disappointment.&nbsp; It would be a mechanical nightmare to implement.&nbsp; The closest DnD has ever come to that is Wish, which has never worked well.&nbsp; The best you could hope for is the Monster Manual containing River Spirits/Gods (or other place-spirits) which could be, shall we say, convinced to relocate.&nbsp; Note that that solution has nothing to do with Caster/Non-Caster.&nbsp; Note also with wizards and clerics don't really have any good &quot;relocate river&quot; spells either.&nbsp; Earthquake might get you somewhere, but beyond that....So on the other hand, I am bemused by this apparent belief that high level spell casters can reshape reality at a whim, which would mean that non-magical fighters couldn't compete.&nbsp; DnD has never had those kind of spells.&nbsp; Again, the closest is Wish.&nbsp; DnD's spellcasters have not been as powerful as people seem to think they are.&nbsp; 3e's Passwall isn't that much better than a fighter armed with an adamantine spoon.&nbsp; Disintegrate capped at a Fighter's full attack output, and that is assuming the target failed their save.To recap: if you exaggerate the abilities of a high level wizard or cleric beyond all reason, then fighters need amazing narrative abilities to compete.&nbsp; But wizards and clerics don't have godlike reality bending powers, so fighters don't need amazing narrative abilities.&nbsp; Which is convenient, because amazing narrative abilities are a really bad fit for DnD (go play Scion or something, or rather don't, the mechanics are dreadful, which is kind of the point).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kraydak, post: 5955596, member: 12306"] Let us be honest here. Anyone who want fighters to get narrative power to move rivers in DnD Next is doomed to disappointment. It would be a mechanical nightmare to implement. The closest DnD has ever come to that is [I]Wish[/I], which has never worked well. The best you could hope for is the Monster Manual containing River Spirits/Gods (or other place-spirits) which could be, shall we say, convinced to relocate. Note that that solution has nothing to do with Caster/Non-Caster. Note also with wizards and clerics don't really have any good "relocate river" spells either. [I]Earthquake[/I] might get you somewhere, but beyond that.... So on the other hand, I am bemused by this apparent belief that high level spell casters can reshape reality at a whim, which would mean that non-magical fighters couldn't compete. DnD has [I][B]never[/B][/I] had those kind of spells. Again, the closest is [I]Wish[/I]. DnD's spellcasters have not been as powerful as people seem to think they are. 3e's Passwall isn't that much better than a fighter armed with an adamantine spoon. Disintegrate capped at a Fighter's full attack output, and that is assuming the target failed their save. To recap: if you exaggerate the abilities of a high level wizard or cleric beyond all reason, then fighters need amazing narrative abilities to compete. But wizards and clerics don't have godlike reality bending powers, so fighters don't need amazing narrative abilities. Which is convenient, because amazing narrative abilities are a really bad fit for DnD (go play Scion or something, or rather don't, the mechanics are dreadful, which is kind of the point). [/QUOTE]

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