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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5957440" data-attributes="member: 996">Oh, I was far from stuck in story-free dungeon crawls.&nbsp; One of the good things about playing classic D&amp;D back in the day was that every DM took the rules out back and beat them into the shape he wanted.&nbsp; Some of those DMs could be quite story-oriented, and come up with stuff that got out of the way of your hero acting like a hero in a fantasy story, or gave players more options to get their character where they wanted it to be and where they wanted it to go.&nbsp; So, it happened, a lot - once the rules were dealt with.I din't realize these examples were leaving D&amp;D behind, as well as modifying it.&nbsp; I'm glad you have some variants - and a whole game - that work well for you, but they aren't the D&amp;D I characterized as delivering the &quot;greed vs paranoia&quot; story.Lotta typing, may easily have left out a word...Certainly you can ignore flavor text, or the DM can take control of it, but the PH actually puts the 'power' to change flavor text in the hands of the player.&nbsp; It may not have much effect on the game, which is why I said it's just a bit in that direction, but it's there.&nbsp; The parity in resource management that 4e introduced also put a lot more 'power to the player' when it came to archetypes and concepts that were formerly choice-poor and lacked plot power.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5957440, member: 996"] Oh, I was far from stuck in story-free dungeon crawls. One of the good things about playing classic D&D back in the day was that every DM took the rules out back and beat them into the shape he wanted. Some of those DMs could be quite story-oriented, and come up with stuff that got out of the way of your hero acting like a hero in a fantasy story, or gave players more options to get their character where they wanted it to be and where they wanted it to go. So, it happened, a lot - once the rules were dealt with. I din't realize these examples were leaving D&D behind, as well as modifying it. I'm glad you have some variants - and a whole game - that work well for you, but they aren't the D&D I characterized as delivering the "greed vs paranoia" story. Lotta typing, may easily have left out a word... Certainly you can ignore flavor text, or the DM can take control of it, but the PH actually puts the 'power' to change flavor text in the hands of the player. It may not have much effect on the game, which is why I said it's just a bit in that direction, but it's there. The parity in resource management that 4e introduced also put a lot more 'power to the player' when it came to archetypes and concepts that were formerly choice-poor and lacked plot power. [/QUOTE]

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