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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5958565" data-attributes="member: 6668292">I'm not talking about Forge narrative play, either. I dislike its definition (I much prefer the G/D/S definitions to G/N/S). I'm talking about player control over the story in a &quot;here, use this meta mechanic, and make the story happen this way&quot; sort of thing.This, to me, goes back to the average person picking an elf and wanting to be involved with &quot;elf things&quot;. What you're describing is exploring some sort of theme based on setting flavor, and while 4e doesn't fight against it, I don't see it forcing itself into play mechanically (except in combat, where some mechanical implements are used to express certain features of races).I've already covered my thoughts on skill challenges. If you disagree with it, can you explain which parts you disagree with?Yes, I was commenting that 4e doesn't particularly fight against player control (which can be expressed via skill challenges, if one plays the game that way), but it doesn't support player control of making a story &quot;interesting&quot; inherently. In 4e, there are instances of &quot;here, use this meta mechanic, and make the story happen this way&quot;, but they're almost universally expressed via combat. And, while combat is highly important to progressing the story, an &quot;interesting story&quot; needs to be built outside of combat to give any individual combat meaning (by developing NPCs, having a plot, evolving the setting, etc.).So, 4e inherently has some player control over an &quot;interesting story&quot;, but mostly within the confines of combat. You can use mechanics like skill challenges to grant more control, but it's not inherent to 4e (see my previous post on this for more of my thoughts on it), like, say, the disguise ability from Spirit of the Century does. Thus, my comment that 4e doesn't fight against it, but that it doesn't inherently support it. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 5958565, member: 6668292"] I'm not talking about Forge narrative play, either. I dislike its definition (I much prefer the G/D/S definitions to G/N/S). I'm talking about player control over the story in a "here, use this meta mechanic, and make the story happen this way" sort of thing. This, to me, goes back to the average person picking an elf and wanting to be involved with "elf things". What you're describing is exploring some sort of theme based on setting flavor, and while 4e doesn't fight against it, I don't see it [I]forcing[/I] itself into play mechanically (except in combat, where [I]some[/I] mechanical implements are used to express certain features of races). I've already covered my thoughts on skill challenges. If you disagree with it, can you explain which parts you disagree with? Yes, I was commenting that 4e doesn't particularly fight against player control (which can be expressed via skill challenges, if one plays the game that way), but it doesn't support player control of making a story "interesting" inherently. In 4e, there are instances of "here, use this meta mechanic, and make the story happen this way", but they're almost universally expressed via combat. And, while combat is highly important to progressing the story, an "interesting story" needs to be built [I]outside[/I] of combat to give any individual combat meaning (by developing NPCs, having a plot, evolving the setting, etc.). So, 4e inherently [I]has[/I] some player control over an "interesting story", but mostly within the confines of combat. You [I]can[/I] use mechanics like skill challenges to grant more control, but it's not inherent to 4e (see my previous post on this for more of my thoughts on it), like, say, the disguise ability from Spirit of the Century does. Thus, my comment that 4e doesn't fight [I]against[/I] it, but that it doesn't inherently support it. As always, play what you like :) [/QUOTE]

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