Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Million Dollar TTRPG Crowdfunders
Most Anticipated Tabletop RPGs Of The Year
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
[Complexity] Rate the Core Classes
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 1773353" data-attributes="member: 3424"><p>The thread on <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=101697" target="_blank">Foresight</a> and the recent discussions on having a simpler version of D&D got me thinking: the various elements of D&D - classes, races, skills, feats, spells, combat tactics, etc. do have varying degress of complexity. For example, feats such as Weapon Focus and spells such as Fireball are easier for players to use and DMs to adjudicate than feats such as Leadership and spells such as Foresight.</p><p></p><p>So I was thinking, if we really wanted to have a simpler version of D&D, we could just rate the complexity of each element, and throw out those which are too complex. Anybody interested in such a project?</p><p></p><p>I'm going to start this thread for the classes. If anyone else wants to start other threads for the races, feats, skills, spells, etc., please go ahead. My only request is that you put [Complexity] in the thread title so those who are interested in this project overall can find them easily.</p><p></p><p>In rating the classes, I considered the following: how many choices the player has to make, whether special knowledge of tactics and tricks is necessary to play an effective character of the class, and whether the class is difficult to DM. The classes are rated on a scale of 1 (least complex) to 4 (most complex). Please feel free to comment on my analysis in subsequent posts.</p><p></p><p><strong>Barbarian: 1</strong></p><p>The player only needs to allocate a moderate number of skill points in character creation. During play, most class features come into effect automatically (though the player needs to remember to apply the effects); the player only needs to decide when to rage. The player can get by on simple tactics. DMing this class is also relatively simple.</p><p></p><p><strong>Bard: 4</strong></p><p>The player needs to allocate a large number of skill points and choose spells known during character creation. During play, the player needs to make decisions on when to use skills, bardic music and spells, and which skill, bardic music effect or spell to use. The player needs to use fairly advanced strategies to be effective. DMing the class is also more complicated due to the open-ended nature of Bardic Knowledge.</p><p></p><p><strong>Cleric: 2</strong></p><p>The player needs to allocate a small number of skill points and choose two domains during character creation. During play, the player needs to choose prepared spells and when to cast them. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class is also relatively simple, but there could be issues related to alignment and portfolio.</p><p></p><p><strong>Druid: 3</strong></p><p>The player needs to allocate a moderate number of skill points and choose an animal companion during character creation. During play, the player needs to choose prepared spells and when to cast them. Wild Shape can be a complicated class ability due to the number of possible forms. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class is also relatively simple, but there could be issues related to alignment and revering nature.</p><p></p><p><strong>Fighter: 1</strong></p><p>The player needs to allocate a small number of skill points and choose a bonus feat during character creation. During play, the player may not need to make complicated decisions if he has chosen simple feats. The player can get by on fairly simple tactics. DMing the class is also relatively simple.</p><p></p><p><strong>Monk: 4</strong></p><p>The player needs to allocate a moderate number of skill points and choose between two bonus feats during character creation. During play, the player has to decide when to use his special abilities. The player needs to use fairly advanced strategies to be effective. DMing the class is relatively simple, but there could be issues related to alignment.</p><p></p><p><strong>Paladin: 4</strong></p><p>The player only needs to allocate a small number of skill points during character creation. During play, the player has to decide when to use a small number of special abilities. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class can be complicated because of the code of conduct and alignment issues. </p><p></p><p><strong>Ranger: 3</strong></p><p>The player needs to allocate a large number of skill points and choose a favored enemy during character creation. Subsequently, the player will also have to choose a combat style and an animal companion. During play, the player has to decide when to use a small number of special abilities. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class can be complicated because the usefulness of the Favored Enemy is DM-dependent. Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight can also be difficult to adjudicate.</p><p></p><p><strong>Rogue: 2</strong></p><p>The player needs to allocate a very large number of skill points during character creation. During play, the player needs to remember to use his skills and abilities. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class is relatively simple.</p><p></p><p><strong>Sorcerer: 2</strong></p><p>The player needs to allocate a small number of skill points, select a familiar and choose spells known during character creation. During play, the player needs to decide which spell to use. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class is relatively simple.</p><p></p><p><strong>Wizard: 3</strong></p><p>The player needs to allocate a small number of skill points, select a familiar and choose spells known during character creation. During play, the player needs to choose prepared spells and when to cast them. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class is relatively simple.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FireLance, post: 1773353, member: 3424"] The thread on [URL=http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=101697]Foresight[/URL] and the recent discussions on having a simpler version of D&D got me thinking: the various elements of D&D - classes, races, skills, feats, spells, combat tactics, etc. do have varying degress of complexity. For example, feats such as Weapon Focus and spells such as Fireball are easier for players to use and DMs to adjudicate than feats such as Leadership and spells such as Foresight. So I was thinking, if we really wanted to have a simpler version of D&D, we could just rate the complexity of each element, and throw out those which are too complex. Anybody interested in such a project? I'm going to start this thread for the classes. If anyone else wants to start other threads for the races, feats, skills, spells, etc., please go ahead. My only request is that you put [Complexity] in the thread title so those who are interested in this project overall can find them easily. In rating the classes, I considered the following: how many choices the player has to make, whether special knowledge of tactics and tricks is necessary to play an effective character of the class, and whether the class is difficult to DM. The classes are rated on a scale of 1 (least complex) to 4 (most complex). Please feel free to comment on my analysis in subsequent posts. [B]Barbarian: 1[/B] The player only needs to allocate a moderate number of skill points in character creation. During play, most class features come into effect automatically (though the player needs to remember to apply the effects); the player only needs to decide when to rage. The player can get by on simple tactics. DMing this class is also relatively simple. [B]Bard: 4[/B] The player needs to allocate a large number of skill points and choose spells known during character creation. During play, the player needs to make decisions on when to use skills, bardic music and spells, and which skill, bardic music effect or spell to use. The player needs to use fairly advanced strategies to be effective. DMing the class is also more complicated due to the open-ended nature of Bardic Knowledge. [B]Cleric: 2[/B] The player needs to allocate a small number of skill points and choose two domains during character creation. During play, the player needs to choose prepared spells and when to cast them. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class is also relatively simple, but there could be issues related to alignment and portfolio. [B]Druid: 3[/B] The player needs to allocate a moderate number of skill points and choose an animal companion during character creation. During play, the player needs to choose prepared spells and when to cast them. Wild Shape can be a complicated class ability due to the number of possible forms. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class is also relatively simple, but there could be issues related to alignment and revering nature. [B]Fighter: 1[/B] The player needs to allocate a small number of skill points and choose a bonus feat during character creation. During play, the player may not need to make complicated decisions if he has chosen simple feats. The player can get by on fairly simple tactics. DMing the class is also relatively simple. [B]Monk: 4[/B] The player needs to allocate a moderate number of skill points and choose between two bonus feats during character creation. During play, the player has to decide when to use his special abilities. The player needs to use fairly advanced strategies to be effective. DMing the class is relatively simple, but there could be issues related to alignment. [B]Paladin: 4[/B] The player only needs to allocate a small number of skill points during character creation. During play, the player has to decide when to use a small number of special abilities. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class can be complicated because of the code of conduct and alignment issues. [B]Ranger: 3[/B] The player needs to allocate a large number of skill points and choose a favored enemy during character creation. Subsequently, the player will also have to choose a combat style and an animal companion. During play, the player has to decide when to use a small number of special abilities. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class can be complicated because the usefulness of the Favored Enemy is DM-dependent. Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight can also be difficult to adjudicate. [B]Rogue: 2[/B] The player needs to allocate a very large number of skill points during character creation. During play, the player needs to remember to use his skills and abilities. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class is relatively simple. [B]Sorcerer: 2[/B] The player needs to allocate a small number of skill points, select a familiar and choose spells known during character creation. During play, the player needs to decide which spell to use. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class is relatively simple. [B]Wizard: 3[/B] The player needs to allocate a small number of skill points, select a familiar and choose spells known during character creation. During play, the player needs to choose prepared spells and when to cast them. The player needs to use basic tactics to be effective. DMing the class is relatively simple. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
[Complexity] Rate the Core Classes
Top