Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Complexity vs. Depth -- A Look Inside Pathfinder 2nd Edition
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="RSIxidor" data-source="post: 7787835" data-attributes="member: 6695558"><p>It does seem that mobility here is going to be important as most enemies in the bestiary don't seem to have the ability to attack a retreating enemy as a reaction. That's going to vary by table, of course.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Champions and Fighters both can take feats at 8 to have a bonus reaction that can only be used for shield block (but shield still has to be raised).</p><p>Fighters at 12 can take a stance to keep their shield raised for the combat. Shield Ally champions can have their shield always raised without action at 20. I think those are the only things that improve the action economy in a straightforward way. </p><p></p><p>Champions with shield ally have some cool tricks they can add when defending allies (my favorite being the ability to use their champions reaction and shield block with one reaction, though it's unclear if this works with the level 8 feat). Fighters and clerics can add more things that can be reduced by the reaction than just attacks (energy, spells, damage from reflex saves, etc). These are less straightforward to calculate as far as whether they make up for the opportunity cost of giving up your action and reaction.</p><p></p><p>I'm worried that most shields will break quickly. I think at low levels even those who have boosts to their shield abilities might want to wait until they have a more durable shield. I haven't done much analysis of the DPR of low-level monsters, so it's possible that this is less true than I think. Shield Ally Champions probably are the most capable of using the shield at low levels but you're still hurting your action economy by choosing to use it.</p><p></p><p>And of course, most shield-users aren't that sticky Only fighters getting AOO means other shield-wielders can't do much about enemies just walking away from them to hit something squishier when they see a shield raised before them. At higher levels this improves, with stuff like champions getting AOO and a difficult terrain aura.</p><p></p><p>My thoughts are that shield-wielding to get tankier is a choice (and one I'll probably build out a few times), and that if you really drive the build it can be a significant damage reducer, but removing combatants from a fight with big hits and using mobility to outmaneuver enemies will generally be more effective at reducing incoming damage than shield-blocking would be.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RSIxidor, post: 7787835, member: 6695558"] It does seem that mobility here is going to be important as most enemies in the bestiary don't seem to have the ability to attack a retreating enemy as a reaction. That's going to vary by table, of course. Champions and Fighters both can take feats at 8 to have a bonus reaction that can only be used for shield block (but shield still has to be raised). Fighters at 12 can take a stance to keep their shield raised for the combat. Shield Ally champions can have their shield always raised without action at 20. I think those are the only things that improve the action economy in a straightforward way. Champions with shield ally have some cool tricks they can add when defending allies (my favorite being the ability to use their champions reaction and shield block with one reaction, though it's unclear if this works with the level 8 feat). Fighters and clerics can add more things that can be reduced by the reaction than just attacks (energy, spells, damage from reflex saves, etc). These are less straightforward to calculate as far as whether they make up for the opportunity cost of giving up your action and reaction. I'm worried that most shields will break quickly. I think at low levels even those who have boosts to their shield abilities might want to wait until they have a more durable shield. I haven't done much analysis of the DPR of low-level monsters, so it's possible that this is less true than I think. Shield Ally Champions probably are the most capable of using the shield at low levels but you're still hurting your action economy by choosing to use it. And of course, most shield-users aren't that sticky Only fighters getting AOO means other shield-wielders can't do much about enemies just walking away from them to hit something squishier when they see a shield raised before them. At higher levels this improves, with stuff like champions getting AOO and a difficult terrain aura. My thoughts are that shield-wielding to get tankier is a choice (and one I'll probably build out a few times), and that if you really drive the build it can be a significant damage reducer, but removing combatants from a fight with big hits and using mobility to outmaneuver enemies will generally be more effective at reducing incoming damage than shield-blocking would be. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Complexity vs. Depth -- A Look Inside Pathfinder 2nd Edition
Top