Complicated attack question

[OfRiceAndHen]

Would a large dragon with no racial HD but with 11 levels of fighter still get all the natural attacks (1 bite, 2 claws, 2 wings, 1 tail) or would it be based off it's ititerative attacks from class?

 

[trentonjoe]

Would a large dragon with no racial HD but with 11 levels of fighter still get all the natural attacks (1 bite, 2 claws, 2 wings, 1 tail) or would it be based off it's ititerative attacks from class?

I think it could take either.

I also think if it wields a weapon (say in its claws) it could take all the other attacks at -5 (or -2 with multiattack)

I should add that the game, I don't think, is designed for that to happen so pretty much anything you did would probably work.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Would a large dragon with no racial HD...

!?

-Hyp.

 

[The Souljourner]

I think what HS is trying to say is.... if you're a dragon with no racial hitdice... how are you a dragon? Racial hitdice are what make dragons dragons. If you came up with some 0 level adjustment race that happened to have the dragon type, then maybe we could talk. But in order to be a dragon, you have to have racial hitdice.

-The Souljourner

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think what HS is trying to say is.... if you're a dragon with no racial hitdice... how are you a dragon? Racial hitdice are what make dragons dragons. If you came up with some 0 level adjustment race that happened to have the dragon type, then maybe we could talk. But in order to be a dragon, you have to have racial hitdice.

Pretty much

Having said that, a 1HD dragon that took a class level - even with a high ECL - would probably swap its single racial hit die for a class die. (It's not 100% clear, since the rule appears under the heading "Humanoids and Class Levels"... but there are examples in the MM of creatures of other Types - the Pixie, for example - who swap a single non-Humanoid racial die for a class die.)

In that case, if you had a 1HD dragon who swapped his racial die for his first of eleven Fighter dice, but who still had bite, claw, tail, and wing attacks, he'd act just as any other monster mixing manufactured and natural weapons.

trentonjoe covered the rules for that.

-Hyp.

 

[OfRiceAndHen]

In Draconomicon on page 143, it gives a listing of LAs and Base ECLs. I was under the impression that a +5 LA dragon wouldn't have dragon HD, but class HD instead. This is not so?

 

[trentonjoe]

In Draconomicon on page 143, it gives a listing of LAs and Base ECLs. I was under the impression that a +5 LA dragon wouldn't have dragon HD, but class HD instead. This is not so?

Not so. You add the +5 to amount of raical hit dice it has to get the ECL. For example, a small white dragon probably is a +5 LA but also has 6 HD. If this were a PC he would be 11th level (5+6).

I guess there is nothing fundamentally unsound with stripping away all the HD and starting a dragon at a wyrmling though. My guess is that it would have to remain SMALL all the time though.

 

[OfRiceAndHen]

Hmm, my PCs are not gonna be happy when they hear this.

Thanks all for your quick and precise answers and for a little enlghtenment.