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<blockquote data-quote="Nail" data-source="post: 160884" data-attributes="member: 224">Agreed.&nbsp; Only on this point of Shark's comments, at least.&nbsp; :^)&nbsp; &nbsp; 'Course, not.&nbsp; That's not my point.&nbsp; (You may not have been responding to my post, o' course.&nbsp; I accept that.)&nbsp; My point is that &quot;every general leading armies should be 20th level&quot;, or some such dreck.&nbsp; Th' end comment in me post was somthin' like, &quot;All leaders should be high level&quot;, not &quot;All high level characters should be leaders.&quot;&nbsp; ...a substantial difference.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Sure you do...look at the elite guard unit you posted.&nbsp; I don't see too many &quot;in game&quot; versus &quot;level&quot; disconnects in that unit, do you?&nbsp; Does anyone?&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Let's relate this to th' question that started th'&nbsp; thread.&nbsp; An elite group o' guards has ta be &quot;elite&quot;:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> 
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; In RL, (or some reality-based RPG), that means 
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; special training and (hopefully) some 
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; experience.&nbsp; Actual outcome of all of the 
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; special training, etc =&gt; subjective. 
 
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; In D&amp;D, that means high level.&nbsp; Period.&nbsp; If yer 
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; not high level, you will get the wrong 
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; end o' th' boot leather.&nbsp; Nothin' subjective 
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; about that.</li>
</ul>In D&amp;D, levels (and th' related gear) equals power.&nbsp; Power leads.&nbsp; In RL, yer on th' wrong side of a gun barrel, yer done.&nbsp; In D&amp;D, nothing could be further from th' truth -- it all comes down to what level you are, what level yer opponent is, magic items, etc.So any Elite city guard would have ta be high level ta do their job.&nbsp; If they're not, they're toast (or Dominated, or Disintigrated, or Polymorphed, or.......). At that's th' point.&nbsp; We all know this, we all do this,.....but do we all include this as something people know about?&nbsp; Not the game mechanics, but the outcome?&nbsp; Power leads.A 17th level wizard in a fruit market, eh?&nbsp; Okay...I'll try ta take that seriously.....it is from Hong, after all.If that were th' case, I'd hope th' players would start asking the obvious questions: Why? How? What? Sure, he might be there selling bananas.&nbsp; But it's clear that's not his day job.&nbsp; Especially when he pulls out that Meteor Swarm.&nbsp; Or when he starts to talk about demons on a first-name basis......Not only that, but ta be 17th level, he had ta crack some heads.&nbsp; Some o' those heads might still be attached to their shoulders.....Getting levels means &quot;defeating&quot; others, in D&amp;D.&nbsp; This has consequences.......and in the end, Power leads.(...better make those elite guard units tough.......er I'll have 'em fer breakfast.)-Nail</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nail, post: 160884, member: 224"] Agreed. Only on this point of Shark's comments, at least. :^) [b][/b] 'Course, not. That's not my point. (You may not have been responding to my post, o' course. I accept that.) My point is that "every [u]general[/u] leading armies should be [u]20th level[/u]", or some such dreck. Th' end comment in me post was somthin' like, "All leaders should be high level", not "All high level characters should be leaders." ...a substantial difference. [b][/b] Sure you do...look at the elite guard unit you posted. I don't see too many "in game" versus "level" disconnects in that unit, do you? Does anyone? Let's relate this to th' question that started th' thread. An elite group o' guards has ta be "elite": [list] In RL, (or some reality-based RPG), that means special training and (hopefully) some experience. Actual outcome of all of the special training, etc => subjective. In D&D, that means high level. Period. If yer not high level, you [u]will[/u] get the wrong end o' th' boot leather. Nothin' subjective about that. [/list] In D&D, levels (and th' related gear) equals power. Power leads. In RL, yer on th' wrong side of a gun barrel, yer done. In D&D, nothing could be further from th' truth -- it all comes down to what level you are, what level yer opponent is, magic items, etc. So any Elite city guard would have ta be high level ta do their job. If they're not, they're toast (or Dominated, or Disintigrated, or Polymorphed, or.......). At that's th' point. We all [i]know[/i] this, we all [i]do[/i] this,.....but do we all include this as something people know about? Not the game mechanics, but the [i]outcome[/i]? Power leads. A 17th level wizard in a fruit market, eh? Okay...I'll try ta take that seriously.....it is from Hong, after all. If that were th' case, I'd hope th' players would start asking the obvious questions: Why? How? What? Sure, he might be there selling bananas. But it's clear that's not his day job. Especially when he pulls out that [i]Meteor Swarm[/i]. Or when he starts to talk about demons on a first-name basis...... Not only that, but ta be 17th level, he had ta crack some heads. Some o' those heads might still be attached to their shoulders.....Getting levels means "defeating" others, in D&D. This has consequences. ......and in the end, Power leads. (...better make those elite guard units tough.......er I'll have 'em fer breakfast.) [COLOR=crimson][b]-Nail[/b][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]

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