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<blockquote data-quote="Gimby" data-source="post: 3670795" data-attributes="member: 49875">So, that would be the opposite of what I actually said, right?Lets try this again.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool&nbsp; &nbsp; :cool:"&nbsp; data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /> Assume I'm playing, for example, Baldurs Gate. As I play, I make choices, explore areas, kill things and take thier stuff.&nbsp; I do this through the medium of a simulation, in this case generated and maintained by the computer.I then go away and play D&amp;D with my friends.&nbsp; As I play, I make choices, explore areas, kill things and take thier stuff.&nbsp; I do this through the medium of a simulation, in this case generated and maintained by the DM.In both cases, I am simulating being an adventurer.&nbsp; In neither case am I actually being an adventurer (no, not even when I LARP).If I play a CRPG I am not simulating the experience of actually playing a table top RPG.&nbsp; There is no arguing over whether a die is cocked.&nbsp; There is no having to hunt for my character sheet after loosing it (again).&nbsp; I don't have to actually roll the dice myself.&nbsp; The screen does not show me sitting around a table laden with books, dice and snacks.A CRPG is not a simulation of a simulation (unless you are on Second Life or the Sims or something).&nbsp; So, taking the risk of repeating myself to clarify in terms of your analogy (using proper football):Football=AdventuringSubbuteo=TTRPGFIFA 200X=CRPGClear? Or do I need to go over it again <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gimby, post: 3670795, member: 49875"] So, that would be the opposite of what I actually said, right? Lets try this again. :cool: Assume I'm playing, for example, Baldurs Gate. As I play, I make choices, explore areas, kill things and take thier stuff. I do this through the medium of a simulation, in this case generated and maintained by the computer. I then go away and play D&D with my friends. As I play, I make choices, explore areas, kill things and take thier stuff. I do this through the medium of a simulation, in this case generated and maintained by the DM. In both cases, I am simulating being an adventurer. In neither case am I actually being an adventurer (no, not even when I LARP). If I play a CRPG I am not simulating the experience of actually playing a table top RPG. There is no arguing over whether a die is cocked. There is no having to hunt for my character sheet after loosing it (again). I don't have to actually roll the dice myself. The screen does not show me sitting around a table laden with books, dice and snacks. A CRPG is not a simulation of a simulation (unless you are on Second Life or the Sims or something). So, taking the risk of repeating myself to clarify in terms of your analogy (using proper football): Football=Adventuring Subbuteo=TTRPG FIFA 200X=CRPG Clear? Or do I need to go over it again ;) [/QUOTE]

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