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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3674425" data-attributes="member: 18280">Surely you understand linguistic drift enough to know that what seems &quot;lost&quot; now might be &quot;won&quot; later.&nbsp; Nor I am just now condemning the term; this argument is as old as the first computer &quot;role-playing&quot; game and will be going on, I imagine, long after you and I are dust. Okay then, if you go back upthread, you'll see that I said the something along the same lines earlier.&nbsp; Consider, then, that there are two definitions of rpg, the original one (Def A) and the new one (Def B).&nbsp; The set of objects that falls within Def A is called X, and the set of objects that falls within Def B is called Y.&nbsp; It is possible for any one of these to be true:1.&nbsp; Set X and Set Y are the same set.2.&nbsp; Set Y contains Set X.3.&nbsp; Set X contains Set Y.4.&nbsp; Set X and Set Y overlap.5.&nbsp; Set X and Set Y do not overlap.What I contend is (2).&nbsp; Set Y (those objects falling under Def B) contains within it a subset which is Set X.&nbsp; However, the borders of Set X (those objects falling under Def A) do not include additional objects of Set Y by association.If the term in question was &quot;fish&quot; and Def A was &quot;any non-tetrapod chordate, i.e., a animal with a backbone, has gills throughout life, and have limbs, if any, in the shape of fins&quot; and Def B was &quot;any creature known to spend all or the majority of its life in water&quot;, depending upon which definition you were using, a whale would or would not be a fish.&nbsp; However, the inclusion of the whale in Def B in no way implies that it should be included in Def A.Which is a long-winded way of saying that I agree with your point.&nbsp; However, within the original context in which the meaning of the term was brought up (whether or not rpgs are doing better now or during the TSR run, related to Mr. Gygax's comments in this thread), Def A is the germaine definition.Moreover, I don't think anyone is telling you that you cannot use Def B if you think it valid; rather some are saying that they do not use Def B and do not consider it valid themselves.&nbsp; Or, at least, that's my position.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 3674425, member: 18280"] Surely you understand linguistic drift enough to know that what seems "lost" now might be "won" later. Nor I am just now condemning the term; this argument is as old as the first computer "role-playing" game and will be going on, I imagine, long after you and I are dust. Okay then, if you go back upthread, you'll see that I said the something along the same lines earlier. Consider, then, that there are two definitions of rpg, the original one (Def A) and the new one (Def B). The set of objects that falls within Def A is called X, and the set of objects that falls within Def B is called Y. It is possible for any one of these to be true: 1. Set X and Set Y are the same set. 2. Set Y contains Set X. 3. Set X contains Set Y. 4. Set X and Set Y overlap. 5. Set X and Set Y do not overlap. What I contend is (2). Set Y (those objects falling under Def B) contains within it a subset which is Set X. However, the borders of Set X (those objects falling under Def A) do not include additional objects of Set Y by association. If the term in question was "fish" and Def A was "any non-tetrapod chordate, i.e., a animal with a backbone, has gills throughout life, and have limbs, if any, in the shape of fins" and Def B was "any creature known to spend all or the majority of its life in water", depending upon which definition you were using, a whale would or would not be a fish. However, the inclusion of the whale in Def B in no way implies that it should be included in Def A. Which is a long-winded way of saying that I agree with your point. However, within the original context in which the meaning of the term was brought up (whether or not rpgs are doing better now or during the TSR run, related to Mr. Gygax's comments in this thread), Def A is the germaine definition. Moreover, I don't think anyone is telling you that you cannot use Def B if you think it valid; rather some are saying that they do not use Def B and do not consider it valid themselves. Or, at least, that's my position. RC [/QUOTE]

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