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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7708087" data-attributes="member: 42582">Just off the top of my head, here are some RPGs that don't use hit points: Marvel Heroic RP; Burning Wheel; Maelstrom Storytelling; Hero Wars/Quest; and Rolemaster and HARP, which do have concussion hits as part of their damage mechanics but (i) rely mostly on debuffing condition infliction to model the effects of being hit in combat, and (ii) clearly treat concussion hits as &quot;meat&quot; (bruising and blood loss) and not as a D&amp;D-style momentum/victory marker.(Runequest and Classic Traveller use point depletion as their primary wound mechanic; but in Traveller it is depeltion of physical stats - and so process-sim, not metagame; and in RQ not only is it process-sim but there are hit locations and debuff consequences that follow from certain degrees of hp loss. So these systems also, I would say, are counterexamples to your claim.)I don't know anything about the 2d20 system other than what I've read in a few threads, but the idea that metagame mechanics are something to hlep inexperienced GMs/players &quot;spice up&quot; their game is not something I can agree with.Metagame mechanics are one way of distributing authority over the content of the shared fiction. Whether or not they are desirable or useful has nothing to do with &quot;experience&quot;. (Eg BW has metagame mecahnics - fate points - as well as an expectation that, if a check fails, the GM will narrate the failure in a non-simulationist fashion (eg the failure results from some dramatc external cause interfering with the attempt); but I can't imagine very many inexperienced RPGers picking up or playing BW.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7708087, member: 42582"] Just off the top of my head, here are some RPGs that don't use hit points: Marvel Heroic RP; Burning Wheel; Maelstrom Storytelling; Hero Wars/Quest; and Rolemaster and HARP, which do have concussion hits as part of their damage mechanics but (i) rely mostly on debuffing condition infliction to model the effects of being hit in combat, and (ii) clearly treat concussion hits as "meat" (bruising and blood loss) and not as a D&D-style momentum/victory marker. (Runequest and Classic Traveller use point depletion as their primary wound mechanic; but in Traveller it is depeltion of physical stats - and so process-sim, not metagame; and in RQ not only is it process-sim but there are hit locations and debuff consequences that follow from certain degrees of hp loss. So these systems also, I would say, are counterexamples to your claim.) I don't know anything about the 2d20 system other than what I've read in a few threads, but the idea that metagame mechanics are something to hlep inexperienced GMs/players "spice up" their game is not something I can agree with. Metagame mechanics are one way of distributing authority over the content of the shared fiction. Whether or not they are desirable or useful has nothing to do with "experience". (Eg BW has metagame mecahnics - fate points - as well as an expectation that, if a check fails, the GM will narrate the failure in a non-simulationist fashion (eg the failure results from some dramatc external cause interfering with the attempt); but I can't imagine very many inexperienced RPGers picking up or playing BW.) [/QUOTE]

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