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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7708130" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>They're not hit points. (1) There's 3 tracks. (2) They aren't linear in scale - if the effect die is bigger than the current status, it substitute; if small, the current status esdcalates by one. (3) They have a debuff consequence for the character (because can be included as a bonus die in an opposing pool). It's a type of condition tradck.</p><p></p><p>It can do in an extended contest. It doesn't have to - there are simple contests that yield debuff consquences. And APs are gained and lost based on an interaction of bids and opposed checks. They're not hp.</p><p></p><p>You can't die from Superficial Wounds in BW - even if you get 3, and hence a Light, you're still not dying, and no amount of Light wounds will kill you. It's not hit points.</p><p></p><p>The Body of Argument is a hit point-type mechanic, yes, in the sense of a pool that must be depleted to win the contest. But it's still not hit points because (i) has nothing to do with being hit, and (ii) is generated anew for each contest (in that respect a bit like the HeroWars APs). Heroes don't have a pool of "argument points" which can suffer attrition over the course of an adventure and which they replenish by resting or drinking potions of glibness.</p><p></p><p>As I posted, concussion hits aren't a metagame mechanic (which hit points are, as [MENTION=100241]slygeek[/MENTION] correctly noted). And at least in my experience death from concussion hit loss is extremely rare, because it occurs only at -CON. (Zero concussion hits is unconsciousness.)</p><p></p><p>One of the reasons that concussion hits are not a metagame mechanic in RM and HARP is that they are just one component ofthe whole injury system. In RM, you don't knock of the hit points and then narrate (say) a mighty blow that pierces the shoulder and draws blood. That narration is only permissible if yielded by an appropriate crit result. It's primarily a condition/debuff-based system.</p><p></p><p>Stress in 2d20 is VERY much HP... but HP with a shortcut that can drop you out sooner than "out of HP" - just like RM's crits can. Mōdiphüs' staff's claims that it isn't HP are simply wrong... but I understand why. See, of the games you claim don't have HP, each has a "depletion of the opponent's points wins" condition as a default position, and cumulative damage to them. They all do have a hit point element. So does 2d20. Oh, and then the harms and traumas limits are also a HP mechanic.</p></blockquote><p></p><p> [MENTION=6775031]Saelorn[/MENTION] has over 3,000 posts. A good chunk of that has been spent explaining his own (distinctive) views about metagaming and why he doesn't like it. He's not giving you a knee-jerk reaction!</p><p></p><p>And I'm pretty sure I've seen [MENTION=92305]Water Bob[/MENTION] post in the past on this issue too, especially in the context of this game.</p><p></p><p>As for myself, I run plenty of games with metagame mechanics (4e, BW, MHRP, AD&D). They don't bother me at all.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7708130, member: 42582"] They're not hit points. (1) There's 3 tracks. (2) They aren't linear in scale - if the effect die is bigger than the current status, it substitute; if small, the current status esdcalates by one. (3) They have a debuff consequence for the character (because can be included as a bonus die in an opposing pool). It's a type of condition tradck. It can do in an extended contest. It doesn't have to - there are simple contests that yield debuff consquences. And APs are gained and lost based on an interaction of bids and opposed checks. They're not hp. You can't die from Superficial Wounds in BW - even if you get 3, and hence a Light, you're still not dying, and no amount of Light wounds will kill you. It's not hit points. The Body of Argument is a hit point-type mechanic, yes, in the sense of a pool that must be depleted to win the contest. But it's still not hit points because (i) has nothing to do with being hit, and (ii) is generated anew for each contest (in that respect a bit like the HeroWars APs). Heroes don't have a pool of "argument points" which can suffer attrition over the course of an adventure and which they replenish by resting or drinking potions of glibness. As I posted, concussion hits aren't a metagame mechanic (which hit points are, as [MENTION=100241]slygeek[/MENTION] correctly noted). And at least in my experience death from concussion hit loss is extremely rare, because it occurs only at -CON. (Zero concussion hits is unconsciousness.) One of the reasons that concussion hits are not a metagame mechanic in RM and HARP is that they are just one component ofthe whole injury system. In RM, you don't knock of the hit points and then narrate (say) a mighty blow that pierces the shoulder and draws blood. That narration is only permissible if yielded by an appropriate crit result. It's primarily a condition/debuff-based system. Stress in 2d20 is VERY much HP... but HP with a shortcut that can drop you out sooner than "out of HP" - just like RM's crits can. Mōdiphüs' staff's claims that it isn't HP are simply wrong... but I understand why. See, of the games you claim don't have HP, each has a "depletion of the opponent's points wins" condition as a default position, and cumulative damage to them. They all do have a hit point element. So does 2d20. Oh, and then the harms and traumas limits are also a HP mechanic.[/QUOTE] [MENTION=6775031]Saelorn[/MENTION] has over 3,000 posts. A good chunk of that has been spent explaining his own (distinctive) views about metagaming and why he doesn't like it. He's not giving you a knee-jerk reaction! And I'm pretty sure I've seen [MENTION=92305]Water Bob[/MENTION] post in the past on this issue too, especially in the context of this game. As for myself, I run plenty of games with metagame mechanics (4e, BW, MHRP, AD&D). They don't bother me at all. [/QUOTE]
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