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<blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 5728998" data-attributes="member: 92305">Howard writes, in Red Nails....&nbsp;&quot;You know Zarallo didn't have enough knaves to whip me out of camp, &quot; he grinned.&nbsp; &quot;Of course I followed you.&nbsp; Lucky thing for you, too, wench!&nbsp; When you knifed that Stygian officer, you forfeited Zarallo's favor and protection, and you outlawed yourself with the Stygians.&quot;&nbsp;&quot;I know it,&quot; she replied sullenly.&nbsp; &quot;But what else could I do?&nbsp; You know what my provocations was.&quot;&nbsp;&quot;Sure,&quot; he agreed.&nbsp; &quot;If I'd been there, I'd have knifed him myself.&nbsp; But if a woman must live in the war-camps of men, she can expect such things.&quot;&nbsp;So, I do think that Howard's audience of the 30's considered the question of whether or not Conan's men raped women and murdered children, because Howard, himself, draws attention to it in his prose.&nbsp;And, although I agree that most fiction is escapism, Howard's Conan leans toward the more gritty, realic form of es escapism.&nbsp;Plus, the above proves that &quot;today's paradigm&quot; is much closer to Howard's day than some people think.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;No, I think you are correct.&nbsp; Even in the Red Nails story (ironic title, eh?), Howard writes...&nbsp;He laughed at her insolence and flexed his mighty bicepts.&nbsp;After chasing Valeria for leagues and point blank telling her that he wants to bed her..&nbsp;&quot;Conan the Cimmerian!&quot; ejaculated the woman.&nbsp; &quot;What are you doing on my trail?&quot;&nbsp;Interesting choice of words here.&nbsp;He grinned hardly, and his fierce blue eyes burned with a light any woman could understand as they ran over her magnificent figure, lingering on the swell of her splendid breasts beneath the light shirt, and the clear white flesh displayed between breeches and boot tops.&nbsp;&quot;Don't you know?&quot;&nbsp; He laughed.&nbsp; &quot;Haven't I made my admiration for you plain ever since I first saw you.&quot;&nbsp;&quot;A stallion could have made it no plainer,&quot; she answered disdainfully.&nbsp;Flexing his muscles and giving her &quot;the look&quot;, staring her down as a starving wolf stares at a rabbit--I think you're correct in that Conan first tried to motivate Valeria to come to him.&nbsp;And, we don't know what happened between them when they first met in the camp.&nbsp; &nbsp;I'm guessing that Conan knows he's got a physique that women find attractive, and so he uses it to his advantage as any of us would.&nbsp;When that doesn't work, though--&quot;...she answered disdainfully.&quot;--he'll resort to other means to get that which intrigues him.&nbsp; In this case, he traveled leagues after the wench and told her, straight up, &quot;Haven't I made my admiration for you plain ever since I first saw you.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yes.&nbsp; I think it's the comics and pastiches (other than Offutt's books, of course) that change Conan's character from the grim-n-gritty survivalist that Howard describes into the sterotypical hero that we find mainly in non-Howard sources.&nbsp;I'm reading the Dark Horse Conan collections, right now.&nbsp; I'm almost finished with Book 9 - Free Companions.&nbsp; And, there is a scene where a couple of Conan's Free Company soldiers run after a farm girl to rape her.&nbsp; Conan steps in, knocks their heads, and basically says that he'll have none of that kind of behavior in his Free Company.&nbsp;That's not Howard's Conan--not what we see in Red Nails, The Frost Giant's Daughter, or even Black Colossus.&nbsp;I'm of the opinion that Conan allowed his men to rape and pillage and murder and thought nothing of it.&nbsp;Anti-hero.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Water Bob, post: 5728998, member: 92305"] Howard writes, in Red Nails.... [COLOR=green]"You know Zarallo didn't have enough knaves to whip me out of camp, " he grinned. "Of course I followed you. Lucky thing for you, too, wench! When you knifed that Stygian officer, you forfeited Zarallo's favor and protection, and you outlawed yourself with the Stygians."[/COLOR] [COLOR=green][/COLOR] [COLOR=green]"I know it," she replied sullenly. "But what else could I do? You know what my provocations was."[/COLOR] [COLOR=green][/COLOR] [COLOR=green]"Sure," he agreed. "If I'd been there, I'd have knifed him myself. But if a woman must live in the war-camps of men, she can expect such things."[/COLOR] So, I do think that Howard's audience of the 30's considered the question of whether or not Conan's men raped women and murdered children, because Howard, himself, draws attention to it in his prose. And, although I agree that most fiction is escapism, Howard's Conan leans toward the more gritty, realic form of es escapism. Plus, the above proves that "today's paradigm" is much closer to Howard's day than some people think. No, I think you are correct. Even in the [B]Red Nails[/B] story (ironic title, eh?), Howard writes... [COLOR=green]He laughed at her insolence and flexed his mighty bicepts.[/COLOR] After chasing Valeria for leagues and point blank telling her that he wants to bed her.. [COLOR=green]"Conan the Cimmerian!" ejaculated the woman. "What are [I]you[/I] doing on my trail?"[/COLOR] Interesting choice of words here. [COLOR=green]He grinned hardly, and his fierce blue eyes burned with a light any woman could understand as they ran over her magnificent figure, lingering on the swell of her splendid breasts beneath the light shirt, and the clear white flesh displayed between breeches and boot tops.[/COLOR] [COLOR=green][/COLOR] [COLOR=green]"Don't you know?" He laughed. "Haven't I made my admiration for you plain ever since I first saw you."[/COLOR] [COLOR=green][/COLOR] [COLOR=green]"A stallion could have made it no plainer," she answered disdainfully.[/COLOR] Flexing his muscles and giving her "the look", staring her down as a starving wolf stares at a rabbit--I think you're correct in that Conan first tried to motivate Valeria to come to him. And, we don't know what happened between them when they first met in the camp. I'm guessing that Conan knows he's got a physique that women find attractive, and so he uses it to his advantage as any of us would. When that doesn't work, though--"[COLOR=green]...she answered disdainfully.[/COLOR]"--he'll resort to other means to get that which intrigues him. In this case, he traveled leagues after the wench and told her, straight up, [COLOR=#008000]"Haven't I made my admiration for you plain ever since I first saw you."[/COLOR] Yes. I think it's the comics and pastiches (other than Offutt's books, of course) that change Conan's character from the grim-n-gritty survivalist that Howard describes into the sterotypical hero that we find mainly in non-Howard sources. I'm reading the Dark Horse Conan collections, right now. I'm almost finished with [COLOR=blue]Book 9 - Free Companions[/COLOR]. And, there is a scene where a couple of Conan's Free Company soldiers run after a farm girl to rape her. Conan steps in, knocks their heads, and basically says that he'll have none of that kind of behavior in his Free Company. That's not Howard's Conan--not what we see in [B]Red Nails,[/B] [B]The Frost Giant's Daughter,[/B] or even[B] Black Colossus[/B]. I'm of the opinion that Conan allowed his men to rape and pillage and murder and thought nothing of it. Anti-hero. [/QUOTE]

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