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Message: <blockquote data-quote="IndyPendant" data-source="post: 2102687" data-attributes="member: 8738">Guys, original question?  Fighter vs cleric?Grappling is great vs arcane casters.  But even a 12th melee-oriented cleric has a reasonably good chance of beating a fighter's grapple, and if he's got his buff spells up, often has higher pluses!  And they have, on average, only 1hp/level less than a fighter--and often more hit points if fully buffed!Now admittedly grappling can still be a viable option for a fighter two levels higher, but it's hardly a certain win, and even then unless the fighter is built around close combat, then the fighter is also significantly weakened, because he can't use the majority of his abilities either.Really, the best tactic against a cleric is for the fighter to have a supporting caster, or a swarm of minions.  Unfortunately.Edit:  Oops.  As to the concentration checks...I'm not really sure it's an issue, except in isolated cases like this one.  If you really think it's an issue, I would recommend one of two things: a minor change would be to make a natural '1' always fail; that's what I'm going to do if it ever becomes an issue in my games.  Or have the concentration checks be based on caster level--but then give casters the option to cast their spells at a lower caster level if they wish.</blockquote>