Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hawken" data-source="post: 4550165" data-attributes="member: 23619">I don't think Monks would have to lose it. I've been combining skills in my games for a long time (Hide + MS = Stealth, etc.). And one thing I've done is that if a class has one of the combined skills as a class skill, the new composite skill is also a class skill. I don't think it really makes the skill too powerful combining it. Its already a large topic to begin with and I think it was broken into two skills for one to cover the knowledge aspect of the subject and the other to cover the application. However, that's like saying there should be a Knowledge (Hide) skill to cover knowing how to Hide and a separate Hide skill to cover actually doing it! I believe Monks were given Knowledge Arcana on the premise that they were presented as keepers of mystic lore and knowledge. Secret libraries tucked safely away in the mountains somewhere with the monks as the guardians or keepers of that lore. Or something like that. Which also could be an explanation for their quasi-mystical powers.True but few people are trained (class skill) in sensing motives. People from just about every profession are trained to pay attention to detail, focus on your work, concentrate on your objectives, etc. which seems to be a Concentrate thing to me. Plus, it also gives a reason for the concentrate skill to be used by a non-spellcaster and interesting reasons to use it for. A lot of novels talk about a warrior being able to concentrate or focus his resolve to such a point that he is capable of incredible things. I see Sense Motive as kind of a social counter to social skills, that should require some kind of interaction, but Concentrate as a counter to mental trickery (feinting) or techniques (intimidating). Sense Motive seems to fit better when you can observe and interact, while Concentrate implies the ability to focus, be in the "now", and reacts with split-second timing which is required when someone is attempting to pick your pocket or mislead you in combat. True. However, it still doesn't change the fact that the WotC designers were taking an extra big hit on the crack pipe when they thought to add BAB into Bluff checks to feint and level based checks on Intimidate. I've got a character, level 10, in one of my games who is an Intimidate master, max ranks and all kinds of modifiers and feats, who routinely rolls Intimidate DCs in the 40s that no one else in the game can match even rolling a 20 because of the way the counter-check is designed.I think BAB was thrown into the feint thing because Fighters don't get Bluff (or even Sense Motive) so they can't do an opposed roll just straight off the skill. But even still, short of a very high roll for the bluffee and a very low roll for the bluffer, BAB isn't going to make much of a difference, its still tilted way in favor of the bluffer.True, it could go either way. I've caught bits and pieces of Mentalist, so I know what you're referring to. I'd agree his Spot is good, but I'd say he's got a decent Concentrate skill too. I'd argue more for Concentrate because Spot is useful for those that have it while allowing this application of it for Concentrate happens to benefit all the other classes that don't have Spot as a class skill. Also, these are specific uses of Concentrate, so characters aren't going to be substituting Concentrate for Spot all or even half the time.</blockquote>

Verification