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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8171278" data-attributes="member: 93670">the point of a class feature?... perhaps the ability to grow with higher stats or enchanted armor?... Also don't forget that there are multiple ways a druid can get 16 ac as early as level 1 without casting the spell they could cast at level 3.&nbsp; How far does class feature protectionism go &amp; why does spellcasting not count as a class feature?&nbsp; Once you leave the spherical cow of no feats no magic items noncasters have better average &amp; peak damage than casters,&nbsp; generally better hp than casters, almost always better ac than casters, &amp; because of 5e design choices for spells like excessive concentration tags &amp; unused by design spells even the value of utility stuff spells can supply is regularly little more than questionable to &quot;sometimes maybe but probably not worth keeping prepped&quot;.Again we are comparing a 2nd level spell equaling the ac so so many classes in the starting ink still wet from character creation state.&nbsp; 16 dex&nbsp; &amp; dex builds were a big investment in 3.5 when they needed to take weapon finesse &amp; such, in 5e it means you are doin a dex build for what is likely a largely dex based class.&nbsp; The point is that it's a way dex builds can trivially obtain 16ac too.&nbsp; 16 con or wis on a fighter wizard druid or paladin might be a big investment sure, but for a MAD class like barbarian or monk who have other features that use those abilities not so much &amp; that monk/barbarian could also get it with an asi to have 14/18 or 12/20 in those two stats.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8171278, member: 93670"] the point of a class feature?... perhaps the ability to grow with higher stats or enchanted armor?... Also don't forget that there are multiple ways a druid can get 16 ac as early as level 1 without casting the spell they could cast at level 3. How far does class feature protectionism go & why does spellcasting not count as a class feature? Once you leave the spherical cow of no feats no magic items noncasters have better average & peak damage than casters, generally better hp than casters, almost always better ac than casters, & because of 5e design choices for spells like excessive concentration tags & unused by design spells even the value of utility stuff spells [I]can[/I] supply is regularly little more than questionable to "sometimes maybe but probably not worth keeping prepped". Again we are comparing a 2nd level spell equaling the ac so so many classes in the starting ink still wet from character creation state. 16 dex & dex builds were a big investment in 3.5 when they needed to take weapon finesse & such, in 5e it means you are doin a dex build for what is likely a largely dex based class. The point is that it's a way dex builds can trivially obtain 16ac too. 16 con or wis on a fighter wizard druid or paladin might be a big investment sure, but for a MAD class like barbarian or monk who have other features that use those abilities not so much & that monk/barbarian could also get it with an asi to have 14/18 or 12/20 in those two stats. [/QUOTE]

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